US Slaughters 40 at Iraqi Wedding...

the military does what its told...last i checked, they didnt do the decision making in this country...am i wrong?

Are you infusing the bush administration into the military now?

 

No, however most bought into that lie, and a host of others that went along with it.

So does that mean that the military does everything it's told? If this is true that would mean that those guards were TOLD to treat prisoners like they did, and their defence of 'I wasn't told' is a lie. Hmmmmm....

 

sivits(sp?) testified that they did it for sport. I dont see how this relates honestly. The military has lied at some point, i'm sure, as have iraqis. To automatically believe one side without any further evidence is wrong. Does no one have a videotape of a peaceful wedding? there are lots of questions that needs to be answered.

 

EXACTLY!

 

So if the wedding party was a safehouse. I assume they would have been taken out whether there were shots fired. Both sides lie and have good reasons to. Iraqi's want to demonize the coalition. And the coalition never makes mistakes. When they do they come up with excuses why the mistake was made.
Now they just found evidence of WBD's. They found a shell with chemicals on it. Is this just to convienent? I have no i idea. Its hard to believe anyone. All i know is both sides have a history of lieing. I remember when the war just started, the iragi minister was say that the americans were dieing in the desert and the were miles from capital. As the tanks were passing by in the back ground.

 

It seems to me no one wants to even consider that there were suicide bombers in a safe house at the location where the people were killed at three AM. Your minds just seem closed to any alternative to the “assumed fact” that the Army just screwed up “again!”

To me this seems like the same argument blacks make for racial profiling on the NJ turnpike. Hey, 99.9% of the drug curriers drive a “type of car and are black” but to African Americans black people shouldn’t be singled out.

The suicide bombers that blow up civilians, Police and make the country unstable come from Syria and Iran, not from Turkey. So why are all of these American soldiers out in some god forsaken desert at 3:00AM on the Syrian border and not on the Turkey border? Could it be as they say they had intelligence the complex was being used as a rest spot for suicide bombers? The Army filed its reports before the TV news filed the wedding story which states Syrian passports, large sums of money, satellite communiqués, weapons cashes were found after the attack.

Now a wedding singer and a musician were killed according to Iraqi local reports. Guess what they were not from this little spot in the middle of Kansas they were from Hot Areas of Falluja and Baghdad. Doesn’t this even seem a little suspect in the argument the poor folks had to get married some place even if it were in a terrorist rest stop? If they can pay for a wedding singer from Baghdad they could afford to move the wedding to Syria, a twenty minute drive away where there isn’t a war and shoot in the air for three days in a row without possibility of harm. They live right on the border. Could it be the singer and musician were the ones who would have an excuse to be there and escort the suicide bombers back to where they are going to carry out their mission? If I were a suicide bomber crossing a desert passing checkpoints it would be nice to be riding with a wedding singer and a musician and let them say, oh, Jed is the guy I hired to set up the equipment.

Can you see no gray?

Changeyourlatitude

 

The Bush Admin's record of lying, falsifying, misleading, propagandizing, issuing non-denial denials, personal attacks... it's so far off the deep end that no, they cannot be trusted with anything. If Bush said that the sun would rise tomorrow, I'd be wondering what the no-good bastard did to the Earth's rotation. There's at least a chance that the Iraqis are telling the truth. Bush seems to think he can simply carve his own reality with words- typical upper-management slash American CEO type thinking.

The Bushmen have less than zero credibility, and many Americans see them as The Enemy, and nothing less. We need to get our politically-allied friends and families to the polls in November. But if Bush wins (or steals) the election, I really won't care if this whole goddamn country goes up in flames.

 

Dude

Bush wasn't the one laying in the sand on a Syrian border hot spot it was soldiers. Soldiers are Democrats and Republicans, like the prison situation someone would speak up from the Army if it were wrong. Don't confuse the Army with the Bush Administration. Bush Administration doesn't have the ability to compel every Army leader to make crap up to fit situations. People in the Army are career people who will be there after Bush is gone and they know if they make crap up their career will be over. So just separate Bush and the Military, OK?

Changeyourlatitude

 

You know it just sounds way too much like what happened in Afghanistan, it also sounds a lot like the excuses we hear from the IDF regularly.

I see lots of grey, but nobody willing to admit the difference between right and wrong.

Besides the fact that the US should never have gone into Iraq in the first place, they should have been out of there months and months ago. A new government should have been installed immediately and the US should have taken a back seat, providing support when ASKED. As it stands now they are not liberators, but invaders planning on running Iraq as they see fit not as the people want it. If Bush went in there to liberate the people of Iraq from Sadaam he should have done his homework a lot better than he did.

 

My use of the word "flames," of course, was in jest. It wasn't very proper use of humor, and its presentation was even worse. My apologies to anyone who might have taken personal offense. I posted like a maroon

 

I'm not familiar with IDF.

I know the Army has officers from both parties, you only have to watch CNN and Fox news to see that. And, there is a General running for President on the Democratic ticket. So, to offer up this is a whitehouse spin of what went down is like saying all of those future Gen. Clarks have their lips zipped, and I hear many negative comments from Democratic officers so even with loss of total freedom of speech in the military I don't think Bush can paint a picture of how the Army does its business.

For the war, it was Sadam who could have avoided it, no one in the world would have supported America, including the American people had Sadam complied with UN's 1441.

The war wasn't about WMD it was about Sadam invading Kuwait. The 12+ year time out was for Sadam to prove he had destroyed the WMD and he failed that test. Sadam gave the finger to the UN and the US.

The overthrow of the Iraq government and military went fast. If you take a look at the complexity of the different factions wanting power from within and from outside of Iraq you must agree moving fast to leave would result in a grand civil war in the middle of countries with Nuclear weapons.

A few people are betting the American resolve will fail and the mass population is wondering the same. If you recal the same thing happened after Desert Storm and thousands were mass murdered by Sadam. Should the same happen now imagine the killing in the South and North that surely would occur. If you were a citizen there could you imagine the power vacuum which would occur should no refree be in place to assure a small powerful group didn't brutalize the other sects?

The UN has no force to deal with this problem. America, GB and friends is what is left as their only hope. Can you not see that is why they, the Iraqi masses don't choose sides yet? If they choose democracy and America leaves those guys blowing up police stations will kill every person who didn't support their effort to remove America.

Changeyourlatitude

 

Israeli Defence Forces = IDF

Regardless, Bush is held responsible for what his military does. Any US soldier represents the US and the President. Yes, individuals are responsible for their own behaviour but ultimately the blame will come to rest at the top.

The first Gulf War was about Sadaam invading Kuwait, and we are still waiting for all these WMD's to show up. Nothing was proven either way, and Bush had no right to go in there when he did, or rather using the lies that he did. He used 9/11 as an excuse along with supposed WMD's to invade. Both were lies, and 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq at all. It's sick and it's sad to see just how many people bought into these lies.

This is why I said the US should have taken a back seat. As it stands now the Iraqi people don't see the US as liberators, they see them as invaders. Big difference. In the beginning the Iraqi people were very happy to get rid of Sadaam. I know tons of people that left Iraq when he came to power and still refuse to talk about what went on there while he was in power. They can't bear to think about it let alone talk about it.

If the real reason for going to Iraq was to liberate the people from Sadaam a backup government should have been ready to be installed as soon as he was ousted, all factors being considered. It's called doing your homework and being prepared. For this type of operation that is what should have taken place. Somebody failed to do this and as before the blame does ultimately rest at the top.

I knew as soon as the first strike was launched that it was going to end up like this. It was evident even then that the US government had failed already. I had said then that they had better move quickly with this or it was going to be one hell of a mess, and it is.

It's a sad fact but the Arab world distrusts the US a great deal and the longer they are in Iraq as invaders the worse that will get. They need to see some type of improvement, and I'm sure that they are hoping for just that. Instead of just concentrating on fighting, they need to also help to get Iraq back on it's feet faster than they have been doing. I know that seems like a lot, but that is what Bush should have realized he was taking on when he gave that order in the first place. I really wish he had.

 

I guess it’s a matter of ideology. You think the IDF shouldn’t do anything about the Palestinians killing their citizens. Nor, do you think America should do anything about Sadam invading Kuwait. Those who want us out are like the Palestinians, freedom fighters?

Well the UN displaced the Palestinians just like American Indians displaced so many citizens in America. Israel was their homeland, and the UN set up an Indian Reservation after WWII. The bulldozers in the towns of Palestinians knocking down homes of those who aid and abet “freedom fighters” should belong to the UN. The UN established the Indian Reservation and should defend its existence in peace as America defends its Indian Reservations rights. The Indians shouldn’t have to fight for their land twice. There are bomb tunnels under those homes. Why would the UN condone an evicted citizen to build bomb tunnels to blow up the Indian’s Reservation? The UN should compensate the evicted citizens for their displacement and then enforce the Reservation, which they established, right to peacefully exist. The people in NY state or OK who were displaced to make room for Indian Reservations are not allowed to harm the Reservations. They move on with their lives!

The real reason for going to Iraq was because he invaded Kuwait. He had WMD and had used it on his and foreign citizens. Had no action been taken then why stop with Kuwait? He could be large and in charge of world oil if unchecked. So, on the first war we didn’t go to Baghdad, instead we made a deal that he prove he couldn’t conquer other neighbors and he could remain in power. He gave the UN and the US the finger! After 9-11 it’s not a good thing to give the UN or the US the finger and act as though you still have the stuff to conquer the neighborhood. His time was up, and he could have just been satisfied to be in charge of Iraq but apparently he wanted his neighbors to think he could at any time come and kick their asses. Well that didn’t set well with a World Power that just had several thousand victims from a similar street thug.

I think the Iraqi people know exactly where they stand. Either America will stand strong until they can defend the government or the thugs who are blowing up police station will be running the country. But if we leave fast some other guys will want to take charge like the puppet from Iran in the south. So civil war until there is a winner. Hundreds of thousands will die! There is only one route out and that is a safe and secure government of and by the people of Iraq if it takes 5 or 7 years.

Changeyourlatitude

 

As far as i know is Bush planned this war before 9/11. 9/11 just happened to slow him down. Did not matter how much Iraq complied they were going to me invaded. I'm just glad the U.N stood its ground. Maybe bush jr was little upset that saddam tried to take out his dad. But 9/11 was a trump card for bush, now he said that bin and saddam had ties. The american people believed it. I guess they believe 90% of the shit the president shovels.

 

Actually the Clinton administration had already passed a resolution to overthrow the Sadam regime.

Iraq was a time bomb ticking, remember the “no fly zones” and the rockets being fired at American and British aircraft? This wasn’t something that could go on for another 12 years. Sooner or later they would get lucky and knock one down.

I couldn’t blame America for having a plan before 9-11 due to the above stated government resolve. It was entirely up to Sadam to totally cooperate with the UN, which he failed to do.

Sadam was playing the UN like a fiddle. Had he cooperated as required for the time out after being defeated in the original war, no country in the world would have the support of their people to go to war with him. Sadam played the game of Hitler, whether he had WMD or not and the UN proved to be ineffective.

Changeyourlatitude

 

errm ....... and you know that how? do you think Saddam could have proven that he was compliing? Anything that he does, America can just say that he was playing with them, there is no way to show or prove that he was fully complying. What like you'd get an inspector killling himself to prove that he was complying and America was bs'ing? ...oh wait that already happened? ...!.

 

Wrong again, they were armed foreign fighters, it's apthetic that you hate this country so much that you won't even hear them out.

 

You guys should check out the new post I made on America Attacks on "War News Central" and you would learn the wedding party didn't have any food, decorations and the mucian who was killed didn't bring any instruments. The did find fake Iraqi forged Iraqi ID and terrorist documents. The Army can not make this stuff up since a future General Clark would blow them out of the water and ruin their carreers!

Hope they are enjoying the honeymoon!

Changeyourlatitude

 

If you want to give out some tears click http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/and see the faces of your serrogates who died for you so you didn't have to be drafted.......YET!

Changeyourlatitude

 

Just wanted to add that I used to live in Mexican area in Phoenix. They would have parties, like Quincerias (sp) and shoot guns up in there as celebration.