US Should Invade Israel!

Link me to those sunsequent resolutions.

And yet again, those territories were won in a war that Israel was FORCED to enter!

No matter what the UN says, it has no control over land a nation has captured as a result of self-defense!

 

Stop ignoting other posts. However low Israel sinks in civilian death, it is never as bad... children are never bloody tageted!

Like I said, you're as fanatic and stereotypic as one can be.

 

http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg107261.html

From Declaration of South Africans on Apartheid Israel:
http://psc.za.org/pscsaourdeclaration.htm

the Jewish National Fund, a member of the World Zionist Organisation, administers 93% of the land of Israel. To live on land, lease it, sharecrop or work on it, one must establish four generations of maternal Jewish descent. In Israel, such a lineage is necessary in order to enjoy elementary rights. We cannot mistake the quintessentially racist character of such a state. Israel is an apartheid state, founded on pillage and predicated on exclusivity. Rights flow from ethnic and religious identity.

We, South Africans who have lived through apartheid cannot be silent as another entire people are treated as non-human beings; people without rights or human dignity and facing daily humiliation. We cannot permit a ruthless state to use military jets, helicopter gun-ships and tanks on civilians. We cannot accept state assassinations of activists, the torture of political prisoners, the murder of children and collective punishment.

We, South Africans who lived for decades under rulers with a colonial mentality see Israeli occupation as a strange survival of colonialism in the 21st century. Only in Israel do we hear of ¡®settlements¡¯ and ¡®settlers¡¯. Only in Israel do soldiers and armed civilian groups take over hilltops, demolish homes, uproot trees and destroy crops, shell schools, churches and mosques, plunder water reserves, and block access to an indigenous population¡¯s freedom of movement and right to earn a living. These human rights violations were unacceptable in apartheid South Africa and are an affront to us in apartheid Israel.

Electricity, sewerage, roads and water supplies are provided free to Israeli households whereas many Palestinian communities in Israel, let alone the occupied territories, have existed for decades without adequate services. The Israeli education system is racist in practice and in content. Almost no Arab history is covered and there are no Arab textbooks in the Israeli curricula. Palestinians also face significant barriers in gaining access to universities. In South Africa similar factors contributed to the Uprisings in 1976 and the 1980s.

Laws governing land ownership such as the Law of Acquisition of Absentee Property and the Law for Acquisition of Land blatantly discriminate against Palestinians. Although settlers constitute a tiny minority in the West Bank, they own 60 percent of the land. Many of these settlers come from the US, the ex-Soviet Union and South Africa. In Gaza, 6000 settlers live among a population of one million Palestinians yet they own 42 percent of the land. Land ownership in Palestine is more unjust than it ever was in South Africa. At the height of apartheid black people nominally ¡®controlled¡¯ 13 percent of the land; in Israel the oppressed control only 2 percent. The Israeli government also pursues a grossly discriminatory water policy. In Gaza in 1985, for instance, settlers consume about 2000 cubic meters of water per person; Palestinians are allowed to consume only about 120. [/QUOTE]
Niether nation has a true legal or ethnic clame to the land (As already discussed and not addressed or denied by you)...

which makes Aparthied imposible.

Those rules are only logical since Israel only grants residency to jewish or half jewish people.

 

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/59210ce6d04aef61852560c3005da209?OpenDocument

The Security Council,

Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,

Emphasizing further that all Member States in their acceptance of the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter,

1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;


http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/025974039acfb171852560de00548bbe!OpenDocument

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

Invading the sovereign territory of another country is not self-defence. It's an act of military aggression and is illegal.

 

Thank you for the link.

Yet, i must disagree. It was self-difence, and it was justified, since Palestime declared war on Israel.

 

There's certainly a case that Israel was acting in self-defence in 1948. Having built up considerable military might in the mean time, the situation has swung very much the other way.

A fifty-year military occupation of a neighbouring state, in breach of international law and condemned by the entire world community, can not really be called self defence!

And no, invasion of neighbouring land over which you have no legal claim is never self defence, it is attack, and is expressly prohibited by international law. The neighbouring Arab states attacked Israel first - illegally so. Israel has subsequently attacked and occupied neighbouring territory - and is just as wrong to do so. Why is an Arab state attacking Israel bad, and Israel attacking Arab states not? You demonstrate a double standard here.

 

I hate to say it but I did enjoy watching Egypt and Jordan look like stupid assheads after they really .. really ..really underestimated Israel.
The Israelis did such a flawless counter lol... just beautiful stuff.

Ok but seriously, I think Israel 'should' give the Palestinians some land.
Call their bluff.

Then, when the Palestinian State tries to fuck with Israel - The Jews can just whipe them out, take the land for once and for all and be done with it.

Now... IF the Palestianians are telling us the truth (they only want the West Bank and Gaza) then they have no reason to worry.

Of course... they WILL try and eliminate Israel from the face of the Earth.

What a crazy crazy place!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like YOU would be quite happy to see Palestine / Palestinians "wiped out".

It is a crazy crazy place, it is fucked up - on both sides. I'm SICK of seeing people take sides. Open your minds, people! Or are your brains *really* that small that you can only ever see one side of an issue or always feel the need to back one side above the other? Wake up!

The situation is a tragedy both for the innocent Israelis and the innocent Palestinians caught up in this terrible conflict.

 

I agree Showmet.


I'm tired of people either saying that the Israel's are 100% right or that the Palestinians are 100%

especially when both sides are 100% wrong for killing innocent people because of their bitter hatred.


People like to pick sides and completely warp and bash the realities to further their own ideals because it makes them feel morally superior.

I'm tired of reading this kind of BS.

in the words of the talented Chris Rock.

I'm tired tired tired!!!


Israel sucks.....Palestine sucks....we all suck!!!


Get over it!

 

Once again, the zionist founders of the modern state were attacking, terrorising and clearing land from the get go, for any who care to examine the TRUE historical record. Therefore any retaliations by Arabs were NOT the origin but merely the response to an ideologically driven disingenuous claim of " a land without a people" used to justify the brutal theft of land OWNED by the original Palestinian and Arab Jewish population who were very much present and prolifically settled throughout the country (which WAS known as Palestine).

Until people deal genuinely with the historic record and place the onus for this unceasing conflict where it has belonged since the first waves of Irgun first began their hardcore ethnic cleansing, all discussion and negotiation will continue to be based on revisionistic claims slanted always in favour of Israel.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html#historic


Isn't that interesting, all those claims that "Palestine" never existed and lo and behold...

 

But here in the US, our tax money is being used to fund only ONE SIDE of the conflict, isn't it?

Whereas both sides may "suck", the full weight of official US support falls to only one side, and that unquestioning, slavish support of the Israeli government is what people are bitching about.

As soon as the Palestinians start using US weapons to kill Israelis, and US bulldozers to crush Israeli homes and farms, then maybe complaints by US citizens could have some effect. But since official US policy is to support the Israeli side, THAT is where protests from the US population can have a real effect, isn't it?

 

No child can be held responsible for this type of action - is it wrong to call a child being used to shield/protect a terrorist an "active participant." Now it seems to me, that, if the presence of innocents is indicated, simple organized seige of the building/compuond/whatever, would be preferable to simply blowing it up. If nothing else, it would give the guilty parties the opportunity to send out the innocents and thus keep them from harm. This kind of "Hatfields and McCoys" escalating vengence is only being fueled by the killing of these innocent women and children. If there is any hope of a peaceful resolution, the first priority of any government sponsored action must be securing the safety of the innocents from harm.

 

a child not being able to be an active participant is a given, which is why i clearly stated that "these assholes" (active participants) allow terrorists to use their poor babies as human shields. but that should be fairly clear, i don't think anyone elsse missed it.

 

April 17, 2004 : By: RHR Date: April 16, 2004 Biddu, NW Jerusalem Four arrestees, including a 12 year old boy, RHR Executive Director Rabbi Arik Ascherman, an additional Palestinian and ISM activist, were used as human shields in Bido yesterday, Thursday, April 15. After local Palestinians and Israeli activists saw a young boy being beaten by border police, the boy's mother sent a Palestinian man to try and help him and Rabbi Ascherman also approached the police. Both were arrested, along with a Swedish ISM activist.


The boy, crying, shaking from fear and eventually cold, was sat on the hood of a jeep and tied to the bars protecting the glass. The other three arrestees were bound and placed in front of a second jeep. After the arrests, local Palestinians began throwing stones, a number of them hitting the jeeps. The unit commander was Shahar Yitzhaki

Rabbi Ascherman repeatedly requested over the next few hours that they not be used as human shields, that the boy receive medical attention and that the officers identify themselves. He also asked to lend his coat to the child and to stand in front of the child to protect him from stones. All these requests were met with physical and verbal threats, orders to "shut up," and/or derision. The division commander, "Benny," also visited the site during these events. Rabbi Ascherman also directed his requests to him. Rabbi Ascherman was eventually told that the boy had been checked by a medic before Rabbi Ascherman was arrested.

Rabbi Ascherman was seized by his throat and head butted by Yitzhaki upon arrest. The arrestees were moved from the scene after several hours, but kept outside. The child was allowed to go home around 18:30. By this time, the adults were also shaking from cold and sharing Rabbi Ascherman's coat. They were released, but Yitzhaki "rearrested" them and took them to the Givat Zeev Police station. There, after continuing to be held outside, Rabbi Ascherman convinced the attending officers to allow them to sit inside. The Palestinian was taken to Ofer, while Ascherman and the ISM activist were conditionally released late that night. At today's High Court session a final debate on the 9 petitions regarding the route of the separation barrier was set for next Wednesday, April 21st 2004 at 9:00 am.

http://jerusalem.indymedia.org/


To say that Israel NEVER targets children is a lie. The IDF routinely invades Palestinian homes knowing full well that there are most likely children in those houses. They also use the children in those houses to move on to the next one. If there are no children they will take another member of the family. You people keep saying that Hamas targets Israeli civilians, mostly women and children, when they blow up public places. This is true, their point is to hit Israel where it hurts most, and attack where they are going to get the most attention. (I'm not saying it's right, just stating WHY they do it.) The IDF on the other hand targets private homes, Palestinian neighbourhoods and schools as well as market places and public buildings. There are Palestinian women and children in ALL those places ALL the time. Consider the number of Palestinian children that stare at the barrel of a machine gun every single day to the number of Israeli children that do. By denying these facts you are in effect saying that one child's death or injury is more tragic than the other. Any child that has to live or die through any of this is tragic.

 

Ok I will correct you.
Wrong.

I would much prefer to see the Palestinians accept the new nation status and live in Peace.

 

A new nation, surrounded by a concrete and barbed-wire wall, and accessible only by highways reserved for Jews only?

Sounds like as sovereign a nation as the one that will be taking over Iraq on 6/30...

 

Yup, little prison camps

 

so your point is that these women are not purposely allowing themselves to be used as human shields and therefore are not active participants?

 

Nice try, I said CHILDREN and so did you.

 

well, technically, from my first post, i did not consider children to be in any way shape or form responsible for stupid decisions made by their parents, so i wasn't sure what your point was since we'd already agreed on that. what i was wondernig, since that point was settled, was if you were trying to say that the women were not actively allowing themselves and their children to be used as human shields.