US Should Invade Israel!

Might be nice if they actually tried that. If the IDF actually used common sense and took out only those fanatics that were causing the trouble instead of also taking out whole city blocks and treating children as if they were collateral damage, things might be a lot more peaceful. Instead they treat EVERY Palestinian as if they were the enemy when nothing could be further from the truth.

They say that they won't negotiate with Arafat, but yet they seem to find excuses not to come to the table with any Palestinian Official. To have peace you have to be willing to make an attempt. Sharon does not want peace and never has. Arafat doesn't either, but at least he makes the atempt. Even so there are Palestinian Officials that do want peace and have offered peace talks, excuses were made by the Israeli goverment instead.

 

The fanatics hide in civilian homes. They use children as bullet proof vests (metaphoricly). It is imposible to just trap them. The IDF is trying, with its door-to-door operations. Yet it is not that easy.

Arafat is not an option because he no longer has control over the Palestinian people and is a terrorist.. The Israeli government is always willing to negotiate, and has openly accepted negotiations with every palestinian leader. You could not be more biasly wrong. As I see it, the Isreali government is the only one ever searching for peace. It is othe only one making the sacrifices, taking out troops, giving away prisoners, giving territory.

 

No, just city blocks, homes with people in them, mowed down people with bulldozers, opened tank fire on peaceful demonstrators, allowed settlers to get away with murder literally, used children as human shields, used innocent people as human shields (don't say this isn't true, I was on the phone with my in laws when the IDF banged down the door during a curfew in Ramallah in 2002), flooded fields of crops in Rahfa with raw sewage, shot children dead just for looking out their windows, called curfews on loudspeakers and then immediately fired into marketplace crowds and destroyed the Shrine of St.Barbara.

 

http://www.miftah.org/Index.cfm

Tis not bullshit, and if you read the last few by Sharon, his actions match what he said.

But I'll bet if the roles were reversed and those things were said by Palestinians about Jews you would believe it.

 

The IDF doesn't need to use door to door operations. They know exactly where these people are and could find them in a second if they wanted to. Notice how they were able to exactly target Hamas leaders and take them out? Unfortunately the idiots used Apache helicopters and bombs to do it and suceeded in taking innocent people at the same time.

The IDF has access to anywhere they want to go at anytime, there is another way, but they chose not to use it.

 

Arafat makes an attempt? Thats total crap. Do you know how hard it would be to take out only the terrorists? they like to surround themselves with civilians, basically human shields that the IDF ignore. Children are collateral damage when they are not targeted. that is what collateral damage is. And don't you even start about children being killed.

*sigh*

Its really sad that people can hate eachother so much that it becomes a cultural phenomenon. I get so angry about this topic that i forget that i am debating with friends. So I need to take a moment to remind myself, and you all, that even though I am frustrated, I love you guys.

 

Yes he does make an atempt, for his own personal gain mind you, but an atempt none the less. Sharon won't even do that. If you look up all the failed atempts at talks you will find that in most of them the Israelis either refused to attend for some reason or another or they made it impossible for the Palestinians to attend.

How frustrated do you think I get? I have 4 children that can barely mention their background.

I agree with you it is really sad that people can hate each other this much. That's why I say get rid of the fanatics on both sides and the ones that are left can at least make an attempt at understanding each other.

As for debating on the board I learned a long time ago, what happens on the board stays on the board and what happens in one thread doesn't need to carry over to another. Helps to keep you at least a little bit sane

 

a Ziggy Marley lyric for everyone (this song makes me cry every time, so if you havent already got it, go download it or something)

lost am I in my memories of my forefathers' legacy
I am one of you you are one of me
why don't we set the people free
how I grieve to see fulfillment of prophecy
naive of me to think things could change
while man remain the same so war will be for me everyday
no peace no peace for the children of Israel
Gaza cries all the tears from her eyes
will there be no peace for the children of Palestine

shalom salaam shalom salaam

who will take the blame for the blood of my children
to who does vengeance belong to no one no one
we're dying from tanks and suicide bombs
the only answer is to live as one
and justice will come for my sons and just will come for my sons

shalom salaam shalom salaam

and I wonder why and I wonder who and I wonder what
is in the heart of you
and I wonder why and I wonder who and I wonder what
is in the heart of you
children are children no matter color or faith
and I wonder if history will teach us again

so war will be for me everyday
no peace no peace for the children of Israel
Gaza cries all the tears from her eyes
will there be no peace for the children of Palestine

and justice will come for my sons

shalom salaam shalom salaam

 

NICE! I like it!

 

If they would have known, they would have acted, beliove me. THe last thing Israel wants to do is sacrifice soldier lives. (This can be proven by the fierce negotiation attempts by israel for kidnapped soldiers or at least thier corpses).

They cannot know, the terrorists move, hide in civilian homes.

The Hamas leaders were extremely easy to target because they are public figueres, celebrities, everyone knows who they are.

How could the IDF take them out any other way that the Apache? They are too well guarded to be taken out any other way.

Wonderful lyrics, by the way.... What is the song title?

 

Shalom, Salaam

 

The only attempt made by Arafat was saying that, I quote, "the might be peace if the borders are returned to pre-1967 conditions"... That is absurd. That will not happen. That gives the Palestinians Jerusalem, gives Syria the Golan Hights...

 

Well if they can find them with a helicopter and manage to pinpoint them directly, why couldn't they use ground forces at the same time? I mean the damn tanks are there anyway.

 

That ruins the entire element of suprise.

If they would have known the tanks were there... they would never go that way.

 

No I'm talking about peace talks, not his opinion.

Actually I don't think any one religion or people should have Jerusalem. I think it should be controlled by a separate government comprised of all faiths. I've always thought that.

 

That is what i'm saying...That's the only mention of peace he has made during the Sharon presidency!



The Jerusalem thing is imposible. It will only create a situation similar to post WWII Berlin.

 

Please, the tanks are there all the time. They can get to any street anywhere at a moments notice. There was one parked under my in laws window every night for 2 years.

 

No, talks were arranged and then abandoned. I'll see if I can find you some info on it. The last one was just before Iraq. They were supposed to meet in Britian I think, but the Israeli government refused to issue visas for the Palestinian delegation. But said that they would be glad to attend.

I don't know about that, the Church of the Holy Seplecur (sp) is cared for by several branches of Christian faith, and some of them don't like each other much. But they seem to have made it work for quite some time.

 

There are no tanks near the mosque... if there were.. .the Palestinians would not go there, especailly not the Hamas leaders.

 

Find the info. I am interested.

And, THe catholic church might work together, but try putting Islam, Judaism, and the Chatholic church together...hell.

In my opinion, the city should not be religiously devided. Let Isreal control it, it's doing well like this.