US Should Invade Israel!

Read it again. I know what he was saying, and it's a load of crap. It's also easy to say since most of the towns and villages that were there in 1948 are now gone, bulldozed to make room for settlements. No evidence.

 

The link...there is not proof that those people were not possible criminals or terroritst. Give me a STORY.

How does any of this have to do with US Histroy?

and No, I have never in my life dressed in army gear.

 

Did you happen to notice there are CHILDREN on that list??

If you've never dressed in any type of army gear you are in a very small minority. Check around.

Check this out

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5732

 

you're so excited about jumping all over people who are against palestinian terrorists that you didn't even read where i already conceded that MOST palestinians are just trying to live their lives and keep body and soul together. i already said that. i've also already said that most israelis agree that the palestinians should have their land but a minority party swayed the prime minister to keep the area occupied. you're not evern reading my posts except to find something to be angry about. what's the most ridiculous is that on the main points we're pretty much in agreement, but you wanna jump my ass for saying that there are palestinian extremists who are deliberately raising their children to be violent, and that there are parents there who are willing to have their children be targets. that's nothing unique to the palestinians, people all over the world have done it before and will do it again.

 

No, i did not say that. Stop making assumptions.

and no, it wasn't you have no proof.

 

You say it and then you completely contradict it.

LOL...I'm not mad...you thought I was mad????? Boy you don't post politics much do you?

 

Taylor is an ignorant New Zealander... on vacation.

I, on the other hand, have lived in Israel for 7 years... and have continiously followed Israeli politics...

Only this shall tell us who of us is "correct" in thier statements.

Taylor is exposed to fundimental fanatics who, are indeed....idiots... and she bases her biased commonts uppon them.

 

well, i did think you were mad, actually. i was completely dumbfounded. though i have to say, i haven't contradicted myself so far as i can tell.

 

LOL!!! She is right however.

Just to let you know I argued this subject with a former IDF soldier for 3 years. I've seen ALL your arguements before plus some you haven't used yet, but I'm sure you'll get to them.

 

I'll just answer that with:

-Bullshit

and

-Yeah right


My arguments are not some sory of a fan basis crap..they are completely original...

and you have not seen them, couse you have not succesfully retaliated to any of them..


it is tsad that you just go to a "bah...i saw that already" argument technique....


instead of anctually replying to the arguments.... because you have no answer.


If you want to argue well...i would suggest actually GOING to the territories and Israel... that way you'd actually KNOW what's gonig on, and not base yourself on your husband... and on what you read online.......but, on your own perceptions.

 

Sorry, tis the problem with posting politics. It gets like that sometimes. This tread is really pretty tame compared to others I've seen. LOL

You have contradicted yourself in places, go back and read. Posting in fourms like this you have to do that all the time.

 

well, see, i did re-read them, i don't like lookign like an ass, but i still don't see where i contradicted myself. perhaps my communication of my ideas was poor?

 

Believe what you want, I would post you pictures of him in uniform, in the West Bank, but they are not mine to post and I would never invade someone else's privacy like that.

I base what I know on the people I know that have lived there, who have been held in Isreali prisons, who are NOT allowed to return, on the fact that many times I was on the phone with my mother in law who was living in Ramallah until a year ago and hearing gunfire while talking to her. On whole families that had to leave before YOU were even born. On the fact that I saw the gash on someone's neck where a soldier had ripped her necklace off because it was a map of Palestine. It's not only what I read on line or hear in the news. It's real people, but of course they don't count, they're Arabs so they are automaticly lying right??

Yup, the list. I'm waiting....LOL!!

 

Maybe, sorry if I misunderstood, sometimes my posts don't come across like they should either.

 

What list?

How dare you stereotype me as someone who thinks that "arabs lie".

Knowing people does not mean living there.

Especially since you have never been on the other side, never known the families of murdered children!!!!!!!!!!

I do believe you with the soldier, i do not beleive you that he had the same arguments.

 

Oh he did...the very same ones, and every time you post one I have to laugh a bit. Sorry.

No, it doesn't, but it also depends on WHERE you are living or visiting what you think of it.

How dare you counter my arguments like you did then.

Well let me put it to you this way, my children are part Palestinian, and when I see what is done to those children that are living there I see my own kids. Thankfully I don't as of yet know of children that have been murdered, and thankfully most of my husband's family got out before that could happen.

I don't have to live there to know what is going on. You are not even living there at this point so this part of your arguement is silly.

 

Something Mari and do agree on:

Mari, it might surprise you to know that I agree with many of your sentiments regarding Israels tactics in this war.

While I don't believe the Israelis have ever deliberately 'murdered' a child or any innocent Palestinians - I DO believe the accidental deaths of innocent Palestinians could be avoided if only Israel shifted its tactics from defensive action to full scale war.

The current situation is the worst of all possible tactics. It is the slow, agonising relentless drawn out way to a victory.

Victory?

Yes of course. Israel is 100% guaranteed to win this war as long as the current brutal winning continues.

More Palestinians are being eliminated than Jews.
Im no mathematician but I don't need to be...

If 10 PLO members die for every 5 Jews.... then in 10-20-30 years its pretty clear who is gonna come out on top.

Here is just one of the fine graphs outlining the situation:


I strongly encourage anyone interested to take a good read through this article:
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=439

What you find is a pretty clear picture of one side (Israel) pretty much guarunteed to win this out.
IF things are to continue along the ways they are going?

I suggest that Israel is content to keep business as usual and that enrages me!
To draw you a boxing analogy (having done some refering)

There is a certain point in a fight where one fighter (Israel) is so far ahead on points the opponent (PLO) can not win a decision.
There is a point where the losing fighter (Palestine) has lost so much strength that he simply can not defend himself effectively.

Sure.. the losing fighter (PLO) may still be throwing some desperation shots and even landing some good ones - but - he is losing more by throwing punches (and weakening faster) than his opponent can be hurt!

At some point - the 'most humane' thing the victor can do is to simply end it! Just knock your opponent out ... dont 'carry him' along and slowly beat him for round after round!

If you get a fighter who is so cruel and degrading (Israel) that they actually refuse to put the other (PLO) out of their misery and would rather 'extend the pain) then hopefully a referee will jump in and end it - for the good of the losing fighter.

Ok sorry but that was a long drawn-out analogy but hopefully you see my point.
My point is - even though the PLO is a 'dirty fighter' who often cheats, bites and blows up children... I STILL think Israel is cruel for allowing the destruction to extend itself over decades and decades.

If they simply took over West Bank and GAza and shipped everyone back to Jordon, Egypt and anywhere else - then at least you ENDED IT.
None of this constant never-ending slow death for Palestinians.
Please don't let this continue on for ages and ages.

 

This demonstrates a total ignorance of international law. There are outstanding UN resolutions stating that Israel occupies the sovereign territory of Palestine illegally and demanding that it withdraws. By any standard the invasion and occupation was and remains totally illegal. I even posted links to two of these resolutions earlier in the thread, and you thanked me for doing so!

 

Quote>my children are part Palestinian, and when I see what is done to those children that are living there I see my own kids



And what about innocent Isrealis being blown up by suicide bombers, including children?

This definitely is not a 1 sided issue. I will never agree with or support any group that uses suicide bombing, yet I don't think Isreal is perfect, and I certainly wouldn't say I am "on their side." This is just another example of shades of gray, and neither group in that cursed region is clean.

To me, nothing is worse than raising a kid,or coercing a faily member to blow up themselves and a bus. When I hear things like that, I lose sympathy for the Palestinians. Maybe if they were more peaceful warriors, or inspired by the teachings of Ghandi etc. the ENTIRE world would be on their side.

 

Perhaps "ghettos"? Did you read about the Israeli Justice Minister's condemnation of Israel's policy of house demolition? It reminded him of the treatment of his grandmother during WWII - she was killed in the Holocaust. The oppressed becomes the oppressor, and doesn't even notice.


(Excerpt from http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1223055,00.html ):
Israel's justice minister, Tommy Lapid, told a weekly cabinet meeting that the house demolitions were inhumane. The minister, the only Holocaust survivor in the government, said television images of an old woman picking through rubble for medicine had reminded him of his grandmother, who was killed by the Nazis.
"The demolition of houses in Rafah must stop," he said. "It is not humane, not Jewish, and causes us grave damage in the world. At the end of the day, they'll kick us out of the United Nations, try those responsible in the international court in The Hague, and no one will want to speak to us."

Cabinet colleagues reacted furiously to the alleged comparison to Nazi war crimes. Mr Sharon asked for a retraction.

Later Mr Lapid said his comments were misunderstood: "I'm not referring to the Germans. I'm not referring to the Holocaust. When you see an old woman, you think of your grandmother," he said.