UK Royal Marine charged with murder for killing Taliban insurgent

What do you think of this? I truly dont get it, They were fighting ie both sides trying to kill each other, as you do. And it turns out one of the taliban guys was injured. So marine shot him Seems fair enough - thats what they were trying to do surely? We want them dead don't we?
But according to shocked journalists, we are supposed to shoot them, but if they are not dead, then we are supposed to take them to a hospital so they can be nursed back to health, whereupon... see above.
Yes, we are supposed to be more civilized than taliban - but this is stupid.

 

Link? I pretty sure the case in the news lately involves Royal Marines, and not US Marines.

 

Do you mean this case? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24870699

 

I am sorry, yes my bad - Royal Marines, not US.

 

When you tape yourself committing a crime and talking about how you understand that you're breaking the Geneva convention, I don't know what else you could expect to happen.

 

Exactly.

Only thing they did wrong was film it. Morons...

 

"Marine B had inadvertently filmed the murder on his helmet-mounted camera"

Yeah, oops. It was all going so well apart from that bit.

 

What do you think of this?

I don't think these are the type of people I want in my military.

Brigadier Bill Dunham: "It should not have happened, and it should never happen again.'

As far I am aware Taliban soldiers don't get fixed up and sent back into war...

We really should be better than this...

 

Sorry, had to down thumb this.


Who do you/they think they are? Rambo?

 

They killed an injured combatant!
Not only did they destroy the geneva convention! but they destroyed the name of the Royal Marines!
This should never have happened! they were no better than the Terrorists they were to defend people from!...
Shame on you!

 

I hate to say it but war is war, it brings out the worst in almost everyone involved. I know it's likely never going to happen with the way humanity is as a whole but I do truly wish we didn't have to have them anymore.

 

No it doesn't.

 

Like mentioned, Dumb part was taping it. That's the problem, Lots use GoPro helmet cams and it only makes their or another(s) good cause worse.
The POS would have went back, Stitched up, And back to the line in a few hours trying to kill Americans. I don't see where there is a problem? Just making sure he didn't have any more run-in's with or another solider have a problem with, A POS terrorist.

 

If those fighting against the Americans and the English do it such a way that it's considered haraam in Islam, then I agree with you. But if the Taliban fighter was fighting in a hallal way then I agree that the Royal Marine should be prosecuted

The Qur'an says this about conflict

War may become necessary only to stop evil from triumphing in a way would corrupt the earth (Quran 2:251). For Muslims to participate in war there must be valid justifications and strict conditions must be fulfilled. A thorough survey of the relevant verses of the Qur'an shows that it is consistent throughout with regard to these rulings on the justification of war, and its conduct, termination and consequences.

War in Islam as regulated by the Qur'an and hadith has been subject to many distortions by Western scholars and even by some Muslim writers. These are due either to misconceptions about terminology or - above all -using quotations taken out of context. Nowhere in the Quran is changing people's religion given as a cause for waging war. The Qur'an gives a clear instruction that there is no compulsion in religion (Quran 2:256). It states that people will remain different (Quran 11:118), they will always have different religions and ways and this is an unalterable fact (Quran 5:48) - God tells the Prophet that most people will not believe "even if you are eager that they should" (Quran 12:103)

All the battles that took place during the Prophet's lifetime, under the guidance of the Qur'an and the Prophet, have been surveyed and shown to have been waged only in self-defense or to pre-empt an imminent attack.4 For more than ten years in Mecca, Muslims were persecuted, but before permission was given to fight they were instructed to restrain themselves (Quran 4:77) and endure with patience and fortitude:

Pardon and forgive until God gives his command. Quran 2:109; see also 29:59; 16:42

After the Muslims were forced out of their homes and their town, and those who remained behind were subjected to even more abuse, God gave His permission to fight:

Permission is given to those who fight because they ham been wronged, and God is indeed able to give them victory; those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said, "Our Lord is God"-for had it not been for God's repelling some men by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, in which the name of God is much mentioned, would certainly have been destroyed. Verily God helps those that help Him - lo! God is Strong, Almighty - those who, if they are given power in the land, establish worship and pay the poor-due and enjoin what is good and forbid iniquity. Quran 22:39-41

Here, war is seen as justifiable and necessary to defend people's right to their own beliefs, and once the believers have been given victory they should not become triumphant or arrogant or have a sense of being a superpower, because the promise of help given above and the rewards are for those who do not seek to exalt themselves on earth or spread corruption (Quran 28:83). http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_451_500/war_and_peace_in_the_quran.htm

 

Fighting in a hallal way? WTF are you on about. He was a taliban! Don't start quoting koran at us please. It has no place here. This is misdirection and you should know it. You are saying that taliban=muslim therefore the koran informs everything they do?
Ridiculous. Equating taliban with muslims is an insult to muslim people worldwide. Taliban are ignorant hate filled misguided fucks who are worse than nazis. There is nothing in the koran that says girls should be shot in the head for wanting to go to school is there? And yet taliban do this. It behoves good muslim people worldwide to condemn the actions of taliban and help to educate othere that taliban action is in no way representative of islam in general.
Anyoo, putting that to one side for a moment - on a purely practical level - why would you not kill a man who would kill you in a heartbeat if he had chance? I know the Geneva Convention says its murder - but it really isn't is it. Its war. You kill the bad guys. If you dont want to be involved with bad guy killing then don't be in wars.
Yes, we want to be more civilised than them, but fuck this. The British army has to be seen to be making a moral stand here of course, and marine A has to be prosecuted as a gesture I guess.

 

You're not Muslim and I am. Also you are obviously not familar with Qur'an or the rules in Islam.

Now just because someone joins a resistance force doesn't mean they stop being Muslim. But in Islam there's rules on when we can fight and how we can fight. Rules which are similar to your Geneva Conventions

The Royal Marine broke the rules of the Geneva Conventions. Therefore by western standards he fought in a haraam way. And by Islam's standards the only excuse for the Marine's actions would be if the Taliban fighter was similarly fighting in a haraam way.

So if a Muslim decides to fight against oppression, then I expect that Muslim to act as Muslim regardless of what they call their home made army.

 

And Those Rules Are......If Someone Has A Different Religion.......

Point Of View......Or Sexuality......You Either Behead, Or Hang Them In

The Village Square.......To The Cheers Of......."Alah Snackbar"....



Cheers Glen.

 

Thanks Abdul. No I am not familar with Qur'an or the rules in Islam. And of course I agree that joining some resistance group doesnt mean they stop being muslim. Of course there are rules - however we have seen that these rules were invented by men in the first place, edited by men and then spread and indoctrinated by other men. And then they are misinterpreted by fools and bigots who wish to use Koran or Bible for their own egocentric purposes. It happens with Christians just as much..."Yeah, you see what God really meant to say was..faggots are evil" or whatever.
Correct me if I am wrong, but there is nothing in Koran that says that so-called freedom fighters will go to heaven and be given a bunch of virgins to play with is there?
So fair play to you if you abide by the rules and live your life according to the book. Peace be upon you. However, out there in Crazy Fundamentalist World, those rules come and go as they please. There is no such thing as fair play when it comes to taliban, so haraam or hallal do not enter into it. They are maniacs who will use their stance as Muslims to justify what they do. And what they do is an abomination as they kill, torture and maim other Muslims, as well as western infidels. For being the "wrong kind of Muslim"
Come on man, you seem like an intelligent and reasonable person - dont be naive.

"So if a Muslim decides to fight against oppression, then I expect that Muslim to act as Muslim regardless of what they call their home made army."

Indeed, that would be nice. Bu they don't do they?

 

Unfortunately as I've already said before in this forum. This world is divded up between 1) The manipulative greedy 2) The Stupidly Lazy that do what the greedy say 3) The very small minority of smart people that just want to be left alone.

This above is a problem in Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Atheism, Patriots, Walmart greeters and even the our penquin overlords. //I'm trying to drive the point home with humor.

As for the 72 virgins for sucide bombers. The Qur’an and the Hadiths make it very exactly clear that regardless of the circomstances, suicide is a Major Sin:
Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 445: Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, “A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him.”

Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 73: Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak: ”And if somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Resurrection. Islam and war

As for war, Islam's rules make it also clear when war can be considered hallal (allowed) and how it must be waged. The Qur'an says

Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Qur'an 4:76

The conduct of war

Islam bans the killing of non-combatants (Qur'an 2:190), or of a combatant who has been captured.

Muslims are forbidden from attacking wounded soldiers (unless the wounded person is still fighting).

The Prophet's view of non-combatants is shown by a hadith in which Muhammad sees a woman killed in the battlefield and condemns the action.

When an enemy is defeated he should be made prisoner rather than be killed:

So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates.
Qur'an 47:4

In brief, war is permitted:

In self defence
when other nations have attacked an Islamic state
if another state is oppressing its own Muslims

The way to fight war is:

in a disciplined way
so as to avoid injuring non-combatants
with the minimum necessary force
without anger
with humane treatment towards prisoners of war
Muslims must only wage war according to the principles of Allah's justice.

Here is much more from the BBC's page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/islamethics/war.shtml

Islam allows war in self-defence (Qur'an 22:39), to defend Islam (rather than to spread it), to protect those who have been removed from their homes by force because they are Muslims (Qur'an 22:40), and to protect the innocent who are being oppressed (Qur'an 4:75).

But some Muslim thinkers in the past, and some more radical Muslim thinkers today, take a different view. They say that other verses in the Qur'an, the so-called 'sword verses', have abrogated (revoked or anulled) the verses that permit warfare only in defence. They used these 'sword verses' to justify war against unbelievers as a tool of spreading Islam (Qur'an 9:5, 9:29).

Others take this further and regard non-Muslims, and Muslims who don't conform rigorously to the Islamic code, as non-believers and thus as enemies of God against whom it is legitimate to use violence.

But the idea of a total and unrestricted conflict is completely unIslamic.

Have you ever heard of something called the Internet? It can be really helpful for the otherwise stoopid peep-pul to ed-u-ma-kate themselves. So perhaps you might want to use it to do some research before your fingers start dancing on the keyboard and demonstrate to the world that you're brainless.

 

"This world is divded up between 1) The manipulative greedy 2) The Stupidly Lazy that do what the greedy say 3) The very small minority of smart people that just want to be left alone. This above is a problem in Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Atheism, Patriots, Walmart greeters and even the our penquin overlords".

Very good, I like that!
So look, you explain the "proper way" of combat above very well - good job thanks. However, like I said, taliban do not play properly. They are just wired up wrong. I don't think I ever cast aspersions on Islam as a whole.

However...
"So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them..."

I do have a problem with this, because it sounds to me as if the problem is the disbelieving So really, if am am a disbeliever...which I am...then I am in line for a bit of neck smiting? Because I don't believe in Islam?
Thats a bit harsh don't you think?