Twilight of America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Sig, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. Sig

    Sig Senior Member

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  2. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    Yeah, there are some good points- maybe of them debatable like the merits of the various forms of energy production that would be used to achieve being able to supply all of our own energy... I do believe the U.S. may be on it's way to being more of an energy exporter... I guess what I'm trying to say that is possible and likely for this country in the (fairly) near future, but the country needs to be smart about it and have discussions on the environmental impact- without resorting to exaggerations. But regardless of exactly how things go things will be changing very much so regarding that issue in the not too distant future.

    In any case, the article is well written and does raise some good issues..many of them good for debate. And some that I agree with and some I do not.
     
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    I think it might help to give a bit of background to place the article in context.

    The writer

    This was written by Conrad Black a man born into a wealthy and influential Canadian family who has British citizenship and is a convicted fraudster.
    He was owner of the right wing Telegraph newspaper and admirer of Margret Thatcher. He was made a life peer in 2001 becoming Baron Black of Crossharbour, sitting on the right wing benches.

    Some have described him as a privileged and arrogant man who didn’t (and doesn’t) believe some laws should apply to him, leading him to use his shareholders money as if it were his own.

    The Newspaper

    The New York Sun is a right wing leaning newspaper, that has advocated prosecuting Iraq War protestors for treason, supported the nomination of Dick Cheney for the presidency and supported President George W. Bush and his decision to launch the Iraq War.
     
  4. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Given its background it was unlikely to be an unbiased or objective article so it’s no surprise it isn’t.

    Basically it’s a ‘decline of America’ piece that’s always popular** but the fault for the supposed decline here is heaped at the door of the Obama Administration.

    It demands for a clear foreign policy, this is nothing new people have been asking for a clear policy since politics began the problem is that the world can be unclear and having a ‘clear’ policy doesn’t mean it is a good policy. The anti-left wing policies of several past US administrations was ‘clear’ but it led to many bad decisions and practices that created many problems that the US and others face today (including instability in the Middle East).

    A lot of the article is just lashing out at others, the British are “ridiculous”, lots of Germans are “communists, eco-extremists or cyber-nihilists”, France is “over-centralized, suffocating in pettifogging regulations and governed by idiots” and Canada is dithering.

    As to the spleen vented at environmentalist it’s silly and childish.

    While playing no doubt to his audience he claims that the US is “a hard-working, patriotic country with a talented work force and a political system that can generate policy and govern and lead effectively”

    The problem there is that many of the hard working and talented are suffering from thirty years of neo-liberalism with middle and lower class wages either stagnating or falling while the wealth of only a few has ballooned vastly (often based in speculation and outsourcing).

    Patriotism can get in the way of much needed reform if it is the kind that blinds people to the faults within a country.

    And as to the US’s political system many see it as dysfunctional and deeply partisan with too much influence being exerted by wealthy vested interests.

    **We have the thread - The Decline and Fall of the America Empire: Part One 1945-2011
    http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=435209
     
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    OK so could those that see 'good points' in this article please expalin what they are and why they believe them good?
     
  6. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Strange, people claim the article makes some ‘good points’ but when asked they can’t seem to find even one.

    Ok this take another part of it -

    The article asserts that “the United States will be self-sufficient in energy in a few years” and seems to suggest that this will and that this will end many of the problems facing the US that it will “end the suicidal U.S. balance-of-payments deficit, cut the worst terrorist-supporting, oil-producing regimes in the world off at the ankles financially, and drastically reduce the federal government budget deficit

    First I’m not sure where this ‘energy’ is going to come from, renewable sources (solar, wind, wave etc) all have their drawbacks as does nuclear, and while ‘fracking’ is booming it is not exactly a long term solution and if handled wrong could make things a lot worse. And anyway as pointed out in the US Energy Policy Thread (http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=474721&f=36) it not so much production but the saving of energy that is needed.

    Well let us say for arguments sake that the US does becomes self-sufficient in energy in the near future what about the things this is meant to ‘cure’. Balance-of-payments deficit

    This goes back a long way and has many factors including the bad decisions of the US in the Bretton Wood agreement, a concentration on militarism rather than economic development, free market ideas and a move to consumerism meaning that the US went into deficit in 1971 and has not had a surplus since 1975, the disastrous neo-liberalism of the past 30 years or so has only made things worse.

    “cut the worst terrorist-supporting, oil-producing regimes in the world off at the ankles financially”

    I’m not sure who this is aimed at?

    drastically reduce the federal government budget deficit

    Well being self-sufficient in energy would help being an exporter would help even more but to just look to that to get out of the US’s economic problems is not a great plan.
     
  7. playoff

    playoff Guest

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    Totally agree - so many contradictions from these hypocrites
     

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