Trayvon

And one wrong word away from race riots in this country because of this bullshit being stirred up by the media.

 

You're comparing Martin to Bruce Lee and and Zimmerman to Biggie Smalls, to prove a point that one of the greatest martial artist that ever lived could beat up someone that out weight him? Does Biggie get to carry a gun in this fight too?!

I think your comparison is unfair to the people you are trying to analogize (neither one were as different as the two you compared them to), and what I'm saying is on paper Zimmerman has the advantage which is why I'm confused people take anything that the man says at his word and not a grain of salt. After all the dead can't defend themselves.

 

Your logic is unsound.

You seem to think that weight is the only advantage, in the real world, in a real fight. Not so, regardless of the examples given. I'm talking about what led up to the shooting, not the shooting itself.

Seemingly, what led up to the shooting was the physical altercation.

If I had a gun, and someone was beating the crap outta me, I'd use it.

You're saying that "on paper" Zimmerman had the physical "advantage", in a fight. What do you mean by "on paper"? If you have to say "on paper", then it's not proven, but rather, rhetorical. If, possibly, he was not as skilled a fighter as Martin, then why should he simply let himself lose the fight? In this situation, it appears that there is a chance that his life was at risk. You and I can go back and forth about the actual occurrence of events, but neither of us were there, were we?

You assume that Zimmerman was not injured, because he doesn't appear so in the video. "Appearances" don't tell the whole story, do they? Did Tray "appear" to be up to no good? One "appears" this way, the other "appears" that way. All such apparent judgments exclude the real situation, which could only be seen at the scene.

Are you siding with Martin simply because he was black, and 17? I hope not.

You imply, as part of your logic, that since Martin is dead, we must give him the better portion of the benefit of the doubt. Why? What has being dead got to do with who did what? It only speaks to Zimmerman having a gun, having fired it, and it Martin having received fatal wounds. It does nothing to settle who was the aggressor, or who was at fault for the altercation.

 

Do I think the people are being played by the media...of course. Practically every story that makes it to the mainstream media is based on shit-stirring rather than displaying facts or getting to the truth.

It is meant to distract the public by getting them involved in hysterical allegiances and paranoia. Look at every case that comes out in the mainstream media these days...constantly the story is us against them... wrong against right... my way or the highway... we're taught to take sides in the school system and we're constantly being retaught to listen to other people's opinions and check off the box we choose as our own answer...

The mainstream media almost at random chooses which stories they can spin to get the greatest rise out of people. They want to have people watching, wagering and addicted to more information...even the tiny bits of bullshit that are just repeated in a new way.

Of course there will be a focus on the race issue...it is silly in my opinion to get so caught up in this situation. This shit does happen everyday. You may not hear about in NY, but in GA...everyday I inadvertantly hear the news there are 30 different stories with a focus on black against white(yes, plenty of stories of black people in the wrong and white victims...actually this is almost always the case), or american against immigrant or whatever the case may be...they love to divide and conquer, they love to lead us with fear. And there are so many more important things going on.

I have some sympathy though for the mom. I would imagine it was the huge crowd around her that came up with that idea and in the name of grief lots of people want to find a way to honor the person they have lost...it happens this story is huge and there is more of leverage to make that happen. I'm sure the pressure of the media and the people pulling from every angle is overwhelming and disorienting. I cannot say anything bad about a mom who has lost her child in this way, I would imagine the path ahead of her every day is quite confusing.

 

Zimmerman , should have been arrested ! For the fact that he was told by the police dispatcher there was no need to follow him . From that point on Zimmerman became the aggressor and pursuer . Stand your ground law probably won't stand up , cause he chose to put himself in the situation by following him . While he had every right to call the police about what he percieved to be "suspicious " activity , that should of been the end of it . If he had chosen to mind his own business afterword , this would not be where it is today . No matter how you slice it he was WRONG , because it should have never got to that point . The guy was walking down the street , not committing any crimes . What gave this guy the right to do what he did ? To harass someone for walking down the street .

The propaganda media machine came crawling out of the wood work on this . As well as the hate monger black "leaders" . Who do nothing but stir the pot of racial tensions and hate . It has now become a circus . I don't believe race was an issue at all . However thanks to the media agenda machine it is now .

This is the kind of shit that's wrong with this country . Keep them divided with race , religion, politics and any thing else they can think of to advert ,conceal or spin attention from the real problems . So they never see the truth of the real problem class warfare waged from the top . And EVERY time these stupid ass people fall for it ! White, black , red , brown or yellow .

As long as we stay divided at the bottom divided amongst ourselves through corrupt leaders in politics , or hate mongor "leaders" of all races who fan the flames of hate and racial tensions . Who profit from it and presume to speak for the whole . Then there will NEVER be any hope for this country or the world !

Dear God, when will we wake up to the truth ? Once again the media spins it web of hate and lies . They portrayed Zimmerman as being white . Before his picture was shown . Because he has a white sounding name . It was intentional ! Yet I wonder if , it would have gotten this far about race had he been shown as hispanic or mixed from the start ? My bet is no . Because the only race portrayed today as racist is white . When racism is in EVERY race . They portrayed Trayvon as being a twelve year old kid from two very old photos . Again to stir the pot .

What happened to the young man WAS criminal ! What's happening to his image is criminal . Playing the race agenda by propaganda media before all the facts come out to stir and feed social unrest is irresponsible and unjust .

Yes I have heard the 911 call , where he is alleged to have said a racial slur . I have listened to it twenty times and I can't make it out . However , he should have been arrested . What he did was wrong . Yet so is stiring racial tensions and trying the case in media agenda driven public opinion , and jumping to racism right off the bat .

As long as we stay divided we will never be united to fight the real evils of social injustices keeping us divided and enslaved by a system playing and backing all sides and forms of hate . An agenda that seems hell bent on all lower class destruction .

 

It's also been said by the media that Zimmerman who is the son of a judge , has been arrested for resisting arrest and domestic violence . While I have not researched for truths of the matter . IF it's true than at that point he should have lost the right to carry a firearm on the streets . Had this been the case it would of been a criminal act for him to be armed on the street in the first place . And he would have been arrested for violating gun laws at the scene . Why was he still able to carry ? Perhaps cause he committed no felonies , i don't know . The fact is if his arrest record is true he clearly had anger issues and should not of been allowed to continued to carry .

 

Very well said, Papa Wolf. Very well said, indeed. Glad to see you see the bullshit on BOTH sides.

 

Interesting how you chose to leave out Zimmerman's well-known history of overzealous vigilantiism and multiple phone calls to police about "suspicious persons" in the neighborhood.

 

If you don't believe weight carries an advantage, i would advise you the relearn Newtons first, second and third laws of motion.

The video is EVIDENCE not speculation that's why it's informative. If Zimmerman has injuries like he said then he would be covered in blood. For someone claiming not to take sides you really seem to have a hard-on Zimmerman even when concrete evidence conflicts with his story. You wanted more "facts", there they are, but of course those don't matter when they contradict your bias.

Martin being black has little to do with anything, but thanks for calling me a racist for questioning a murky story of a murder/homicide. Btw the dead should always get the benefit of the doubt, just like the living (innocent until proven guilty) - but the dead can't prove their innocence.

 

Also, LMAO at the imminent" race war" about to take place in the US because of this case. Oh please, drama queen.

 

Dude,,you're over the line. Stop the fucking rhetoric.

I never called you a "racist". I said I HOPE you aren't simply preferring to believe Trayvon's innocence, and Zimmerman's guilt, due to the fact that Tray was black, AND "17". That, in and of itself, wouldn't make you a racist, and knowing you (in part), I didn't expect that of you anyway. It just APPEARS as if you have a preference, since you have ignored many facts, in favor of the hype, and the appearance of things.

Your "science" (Newton's "1st, 2nd, 3rd" Law reference ) isn't truly adequate to fully cover every situation. Newton's law would apply if one or the other of the fighters were, say, to "fall" on the other, or jump on him, but the dynamics of a street fight aren't so simple. Weight, in and of itself, is not sufficient to throw the advantage in one or the other's favor. In fact, your weight can work against you in a fight, depending upon the skills of your opponent. Every study the dynamics of Judo? Jiu-Jitsu? Using your opponent's weight against them is part and parcel of those schools of martial art. Quit trying to impress me with the fact that you went to school, and learned about Newton's Law. It's just fluff, in this case.

Weight can do two things: Make you heavier, and make you slower. What creates more real advantage is speed, and intensity. In a cage fight, or a professional boxing match, they have weight classes because all the other things, skill, speed, etc. are trainable, and really define the fighters. Not just weight. Otherwise, the fight would be predictable. The heavier guy "wins". But that's not the case.

Anything can be "evidence", including a video. That doesn't make it GOOD evidence, or conclusive. You are simply preferring to believe that, based on his report, he should have been "covered in blood". Not necessarily.

You may accuse me all you wish of "bias". Yes, I am biased. I am biased against mob psychology, and the momentum of mob dynamics, as well as the inadequacy of the news media to properly allow the process of investigation, instead of what they do, which is to steer the people's minds and to stir up their emotions.

If I were biased at all, I'd be biased in favor of the black, over the Mexican. I grew up in a situation where the Mexicans I knew were all gang members, and the blacks I knew were my fellow students, and friends. If I have any preference at all, it's for blacks over Mexicans.

Finally, to say that the dead should have an advantage over the living, when trying to sort out the facts, is poppycock, and balderdash, and shit. The dead surely "can't prove their innocence", but since when are we supposed to prove the "innocence" of the dead, simply because they are dead. "Innocence" has to be earned and proven, in any case, dead or alive. Neither you nor I knew Trayvon Martin personally, nor this Zimmerman fellow. How can either of us say, conclusively, who is "innocent". I doubt whether either of them were completely "innocent". But regardless, their "innocence" is supposed to be an assumed fact, until proven otherwise, under law. But then, "the people" have already spoken, haven't they?

The dead may be considered "innocent until proven guilty", but that doesn't mean that they have more right to the assumption of innocence than the living.

Facts are facts, no matter who is dead or alive. Sure, you can advocate for someone who is dead, and can't speak for him/herself, but please don't be putting words in their mouths, or predicting their actions or behavior when you weren't there. Since when did you become Trayvon's "closest friend", confidante, or spirit channel? LoL. You're just getting sucked into this, like so many others.

Personally, I don't care who comes out on top in this one. I just want both sides to be heard, over the din of the mob.

I'm not Mexican or black, so I have no personal bias in this, except to advocate for a calm, cool non-emotionally-tinged investigation of the facts, based on eye-witness accounts, and not on personal preference.

 

Weight carries both an advantage, and a disadvantage....depending on each situation. Which was evident in this case is a mystery.

The video proves shit. Blood can be cleaned up in a matter of minuets, the lack thereof proves nothing.

We can all sit here and speculate what happened, but the fact is none of us will ever know. To argue who was in the right is ignorant speculations.

And for the record....Hate Crime Laws are BullShit

 

Could you explain why you believe hate crime laws are bullshit?

 

"we don't need you to do that". Should have been the end of it right there for Mr Zimmerman. Also,I thought that if an individual has a domestic violence charge against them--no gun for you! I'm not pretending to know the facts,except what I stated.

 

"Hate crimes are bullshit". You might want to put forth that brilliant statement to the parents of Matthew Shepard. I'm sure they'll understand.

 

Thank you Scratcho, Matts parents as well as countless other targeted people who are judged to be different. Small minds need victims for their feelings of inadequacy.

 

Very well said my friend . There are indeed hate crimes . Committed by people on people and by our "leaders" who never stand as charged for their hate crimes against humanity in never ending bullshit wars . Always a double standard for them . Hate and greed are evil things .

 

Since none of us here are "forensic specialists", "experts" in the field of crime, it behooves me to recount something I read, which is being left out of the equation here, regarding Mr.Martin and Mr.Zimmerman.

Zimmerman's father said something to this effect: (If you wish, I'll find the quote)

He stated that once having been on the phone with 911, and they suggested his efforts were no longer needed, his son was then, at that point, seemingly a bit "lost", "disoriented", whatever, in the dark and between buildings, since Martin had taken a shortcut inbetween some buildings.

When Zimmerman came out of that, it was stated, Martin was "waiting for him", and went on the attack. According to the father, it wasn't as if his son was simply disregarding the 911 operator's advice.

So far, this hasn't been addressed here, so I thought I'd bring it up.

I don't necessarily blame Trayvon for having been confrontational, if this was the case, since if someone were following me, in the dark, and inbetween buildings, I would also be tempted to simply turn and confront, rather than act cowardly and run, or avoid this apparent "stalker".

I do think it was perhaps more a case of the general dynamics of the situation that took hold, rather than anyone's malicious intent.

But then, I tend to give EVERYONE the "benefit of the doubt", until proven otherwise, not merely "the dead".

 

I'm not advocating hate here. What makes hate crime laws bullshit, is that it's counter productive to pursue equality and the end of discrimination and then discriminate against different kinds of hate. Is it any more of a tragedy when a racist asshole kills an innocent man than when a politically correct ass hole kills another?

"Racism will continue to exist un till the day comes that we think of the color of our skin the same as we do the color of our eyes." -Jimi Hendrix

 

Sorry Rat but this isn’t some fucking charles bronson movie and if the media jumped to the wrong conclusion by calling him a racist too bad.

This creep just shot some kid because he looked suspicious. This guy is sick and paranoid and in the past has sent the police on dozens of wild goose chases - he should be arrested and shot for sheer stupidity alone

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