I think the question of torture is a simple one. Do you want your children or grandchildren who enlist being trained to perform these acts and viewing them as acceptable. If so then we have to ask ourselves how do we live and socialize with these people when they return to ordinary society? Some things are just wrong and unacceptable under all circumstances. Many of you I would assume would not like to live next door to a pedophile, I don't think you could sleep easy knowing you lived next door to a person that could inflict that sort of injury to another and felt it was acceptable. I think that's why the Nuremburg Trials were held.
It would not bother me. As long as he/she behaved themselves and didn't want to pop around for tea. Eh? Do you mean: I think that's why the Nuremburg Trials were held in Germany.
I would have a problem welcoming into my home a person that could do that to another human being, no matter how well behaved they were. Sorry but if they could do that under orders, they are capable of doing it. Isn't that why we put down dogs that bite? The Nuremburg Trials were held does it matter where they were held? I think even then this world was global, and the fact that these individuals were held accountable was noteworthy.
I was talking about paedophiles. I wouldn't let one in my house, but would not care if I lived next door to one...as long, what I said above. Saying that, I might just be able to have one for tea if I knew they had been reabilitated and I felt their demeanor was not false - they truly repented for what they had done. With people that apply torture, then the US version is not as bad as others and in most cases it is not personal (unlike sex with kids.) The people are detached and it is under medical supervision. It isn't like they are attaching electrodes to peoples testicles. So, with a US torturer, I wouldn't have a problem talking to them and having one live next door. I'd be curious to know if THEY could sleep at night. I thought you were saying that the allies didn't want Nazi war criminals in their back yard, so chose Nuremberg instead. If not, what did you mean?
How can the torture of another living being be not seen as personal? And if a person is conditioned to see those acts as acceptable, how can we ever trust them to live in a society again, who will control their perception of what is acceptable? Those that can torture their fellow man upon order I could never trust. Pedophiles have a specific target. With Nuremburg I meant the world prosecuted them even after the war was over. Their crimes weren't forgiven because the war was over.
They are, in the cliched sense, "Just following orders". Unlike sex offenders who choose to do these thing by themselves. I doubt many of them are cold blooded or have no emotions. You have more of an issue with US style torture than I do. I did attempt to differentiate between unregulated torture and regulated torture. People that get their kicks from torturing somebody and do what ever they like, I do have a problem with that. I would not speak to somebody like that. I see. They prosecuted them for illegal activity. Not out of revenge.
the problem here is that odon doesn't know what he wants to say, just that he should add something to fill the post with junk to turn any prospective reader away which by my reckoning is his aim. the way to win the "debate" about iraq and afghanistan and other religious wars inspired by the old testament is to smother any other voice. this post is not some sort of attack on odon but merely pointing out something that readers of these forums should know.
Not really. The prescribed justice for their crimes was death. Simple. Imo, there are levels of torture. If you think of torture in the abstract, it would seem that the US was hanging people by their testicles...willingly using torture as a means of revenge and punishment. Well, that is how I see real torture. It is true the US did not want to use the word "torture". Understandable, really...but we do need to put it in to perspective and recognise the differences of the torture used in the US to that of the nasty vindictive torture inflicted on any person in the custody of the state, in some countries. I could say keeping somebody in prison with out charge is torture. But I'd probably be wrong.
You do talk rubbish sometimes. I am merely one voice of many. Most people here are apposed to war - any war...or they see the current wars as wrong. It is an opinion. I respect that. I do not smother out other voices and it is an "attack" to say: "the problem here is that odon doesn't know what he wants to say, just that he should add something to fill the post with junk" If you have a memory, you would understand your comments to me yesterday were just what you claim I am doing: Filling a post with junk. I do know what I want to say. It is true I do not always convey what I want to say very well. This is true of many people. We are not writers, thinkers etc...we are just normal people trying to make sense of this world. Grow up, Guy, and stop attacking me and answer the points that have been made about what you have to say. I really do wish you would post a long - and if you wish rambling - post (or thread) about why this is a religious war, and why it is inspired by the old testament. You always say that but I've never really read why this could be true. If you don't wish for me to smother out other voices, it is best to speak up, don't you think?
odon get yourself a king james bible (its a fairly close translation- almost word for word. have a scan through it - it is violent and has volumes of hit lists of places and peoples that were condemned to die by jehovah, jehovah you might remember was the person who brought you the great flood drowning everyone!! jehova promised not to kill everyone again but then encouraged his messengers to kill people.
What has this got to do with what I said? Edit: I guess you were talking about Holy Wars. I know about what it says in the bible, guy. I'm talking about the real world. Talk about that for a change...would be nice.
I know about what it says in the bible, guy. I'm talking about the real world. Talk about that for a change...would be nice. It's like pushing a truck up a hill with you most of the time *sigh*
Why are they blind? They are blinded by the Devil! “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” [2 Corinthians 4:3-4.] This war is a SPIRITUAL WAR! A “spiritual war” is a war where the combatants are locked into a stupendous fight of gigantic proportions, and my friend, this war is for KEEPS! It is a HOLY WAR, and the HOLY SCRIPTURES proclaim just such a war in the book of Revelation. In the vision of a future event called THE GREAT TRIBULATION (which is coming soon), we see this war unfolding before us. “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” [Revelation 12:7-9] This war began when Lucifer uttered his FIVE I WILL’S. “For thou hast said in thine heart, I WILL ascend into heaven, I WILL exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL be like the most High.” [Isaiah 14:13-14] Again … it is a SPIRITUAL WAR! A “spiritual war” is a war where we are combatants … locked in this stupendous fight of epic proportions! For the Christian it is a HOLY WAR that cannot be fought in the strength of the flesh! “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh” (II Corinthians 10:3-4). We need to be strong in the LORD! “Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.” (Ephesians 6:10) Why? “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” [Ephesians 6:12] A spiritual warfare is fought with spiritual weapons. The BOOK reveals that the weapons of our warfare are found in our ARMORY. The Lord is a man of war. Exodus 15:3 The LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation. Exodus 17:16, Deuteronomy 25:19 And the LORD said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people ... So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive: and they possessed his land. Numbers 21:34-35 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones ... And they burnt all their cities.... And Moses was wroth with the officers ... And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:1-18 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: Deuteronomy 2:33-34 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them. Deuteronomy 7:2, 7:16 If thou shalt hear say ... Certain men ... saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known ... Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. Deuteronomy 13:12-15 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it ... And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women ... shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. ... But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them ... as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. Deuteronomy 20:10-17 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 6:21 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40 For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses. Joshua 11:20 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:2-3 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Psalm 2:8-9 He teacheth my hands to war. Psalm 18:34 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same. Psalm 68:23 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34 He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 And so on. Did I get it about right?
