To Christians: Why won't God reveal himself?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Gravity, Jun 29, 2008.

  1. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Senior Member

    You're supposed to know yourself, stupid. Made in God's image and you don't even know who the fuck you are. Probably think you're a gynecologist or something.
     
  2. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member


    But when you are dealing with something that is all-powerful, then why wouldn’t you need an extraordinary proof? When we live in a physical reality and are attempting to believe in a nonphysical reality, of course we would need something that affirms a nonphysical nature—something that is supernatural and beyond the laws of physical nature.



    Certainly there are cases like that, but I personally, even in my most agnostic state of belief, wanted my life to be something more than a mere physical manifestation that would end with my death. Yet Christianity offered me hypocrisy and inconsistency, which I recognized even in my pre-teen years, and then I was expected to buy into it on blind faith. This was too big of a question to me to leave it up to a mere conviction of belief upon something that may or may not be. I was driven to find proof. I searched through all the world religions, a search I started very young. But by the time I was in my 20’s I had given up---I resigned myself to the Modern Day assertion that there can be no proof. It was then that I became agnostic, but I still did not like the implications. But science seemed to offer more proof of how things came to be, than religion could justify belief over its inconsistencies. (Only years after I had given up, did I learn that, yes, one can find proof in the nonphysical and a God or Absolute. It is very subjective and personal, but this proof can take on many forms.)



    Yes, you are correct in so far as we define it in terms of faith. But again, when faced with hypocrisy and inconsistency, isn’t eternal life, versus eternal suffering, too big of a thing to leave to such a cosmic trick? It is not like a contest where the winner gets to spend 6 months in Cancun. Why should a mere 30 to a hundred years determine how a whole eternity is spent?

    This already challenges the first inconsistency---why would a God who represents Love that is so deep and beyond human comprehension, and most importantly, that is ‘unconditional’ be handed out as a reward based on the ‘condition’ of blind faith?

    At the same time, we are told to make a leap of faith, because there can be no such amazing proof, based upon a book that is filled with stories of amazing miracles and proofs, wherein God actually did come down, “waving his arms like, ‘Hello, here I am! Get me, I make miracles happen’." And we are to accept this book as completely true as part of that very same leap of faith.

    To be consistent, then either amazing things can happen—proofs, if you will, and this holy book is true. Or there can be no proof, and the stories in this holy book are fictional—or at best, mere metaphor. I actually coined a term that refers to the dynamic at work here: Logosummonism. This is a dynamic that is most blatant in Western Culture, and involved marginalizing or denying the nonphysical aspects of reality, while allowing only a ‘rationally’ physical expression of the Absolute. Now this may sound like a modern thing---science is pretty adamant about there not being a nonphysical reality----but civilization has long had problems with the nonphysical, which it associates with death, irrationality, evil, and darkness. Therefore the Gospel of John lays out much of the foundation of Logosummonism for Western Man---the motifs of light, the word (logos which is not just a word but the word of rational logic), the word becomes flesh, and yet this physical word is the expression of unconditional love transcendent of mortal being and understanding---it is all there, disenchanting a universe for a people becoming overly obsessed with physicality.

    Consider the alternative----there is a saying in the Native American Church that, ‘the white man goes into his church and prays to God, while the Indian goes into his tipi and talks with God.’ They aren’t simply referring to their own sacrament of peyote. The Natives who follow the Red Road (Native spirituality) experience and witness the power of the nonphysical in most every ceremony they participate in. The question in the OP, would be a silly question if directed to one of these natives. They do not question the existence of spirit or God, not because they are so primitive or backwards that they just outright blindly accept it, on the contrary, because they experience the supernatural extraordinary/overwhelming all the time. This is very hard for Western Man to accept—in fact, as most of you read this, you are already marginalizing or outright denying the reality which I am expressing. I’m not talking about things that happen in their head, or even the synchronicities that always precede and follow ceremony in nature (or that just happen anyway on a regular basis) and that we can write off as strange coincidence, I am talking about physical phenomena in a nonphysical context---spirits, animals, things of nature, alterations of physical reality, and so forth. I experience this in Native ceremony here, I’ve seen it in the Philippines, in the Pacific, and elsewhere too.

    They acknowledge spirit and God as fact, and it gives meaning to their lives. It gives them comfort from the pain of physical life. It heals them. It gives them happiness. Sadly the white man's church has left them with poverty, alcoholism, rampant suicide… (Yes, these problems afflict those on the Red Road too----the church inflicted boarding schools affected 2 whole generations, and they are still dealing with the fallout.)

    But don’t get me wrong, we can’t label this logosummonist dynamic as wrong, or bad. After all, the amazing things we have achieved in technology and science would have not been possible without this dynamic in play. But eventually it would inevitably lead to Nietzsche’s declaration that God is Dead. And the logical end-conclusion is the Nihilism we find ourselves in today.

    I argue that blind faith and logosummonism has served its purpose. It is now time to rediscover a deeper meaning, value, truth, and authenticity within our being. We have to acknowledge the nonphysical. It may very well be that if Christianity fails to make this next step----that it will be replaced.
     

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