thoughts on communism

Cuba is the last of the true old communist country just look at the pre castro cuba era and cuba today told by real cubans not the myth that has gone on for the last 40+ years.

 

ill give you a clue Cuba in 1959 had more paved roads than any country in central or south america. most all roads 99 % in cuba were built before castro .

 

Yeah, but I mean useful skills. At the moment the most money is made by people who know how to manipulate money, what does that bring to the table?

Midnight Moonlight, if you weren't making more money for your company than they were paying you, you would be out of a job - and that includes the money they pay you over Christmas.

 

Those with the highest skills as manipulator allways do well. in religion, high places and of course money. no difrent than a gifted musician.

 

I'm not defending communism (perhaps I'm on the wrong thread). At least not in any of its real life manifestations. I think the communist manifesto is out-of-date. No need for a bloody revolution - it'll just happen.

Money makes it so much easier to manipulate people though. Do you really think that, for example, a merchant banker is the same as a gifted musician? While a merchant banker takes surplus money from those who have more than they know what to do with... and then makes more for them, a musician makes music that lifts the spirit, tells a story, makes the world a better place if only in a small way.

Nah, your arguments are not convincing. The only real trick to making money is having a lot of it in the first place. I know you all put a lot of stock into the American Dream of getting to that situation where you can get all you want without having to work for it, I can't really see any satisfaction in doing that. A relief it would be but not satisfying - it would just lead to boredom and an anticlimax.

 

No you don't have to decide that at all (apples and eggs). You have to let go of the bean-counter attitude and realise that with all the progress we've made life needn't be a struggle. No one need starve to death, no one need live in poverty. Contribute what you can, get what you need - it's easy. We just have to co-operate and think of ourselves as 1. Think of everyone as family if you like - which they are. I've just been arguing this on another thread, it would be nice if you would read it, it gets interesting around page three...

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95138&page=3&pp=10

 

That depends on how you define free. It's true everyone has to work in some way to earn a living but the benefit of that work is in no way proportional to the money they earn. The example of merchant bankers is a good one, all they do is give people a bit of money then expect a lot more money in return. All they did was lend a bit of money they had no other use for, requiring little to no effort on their part. The further ahead you get, the harder it is for anyone else to catch up.

Just because one person has the advantages (be it financial, mental, physical) they need to get the skills they need to get a well paid job, does not make them a more valuable person than a labourer, or a garbage collector for that matter. Your company needs them all and would fall to bits without them.

 

Why don't you understand that? It's quite simple. Err, I can't put it any more simply, if they can't make a profit out of you they will let you go.

 

Yeah, but anyone, given the opportunity, has the potential to become something more valuable. Often, people on the bottom rung have no way to step up because they don't have the money to get trained, or they don't have the money to buy the equipment, or they don't have the money to relax and stop themselves having a fucking mental breakdown (excuse my French, I'm not angry I just like to swear occasionally).

They often don't have the opportunity to do this because their parents couldn't afford expensive education or extra curricular activities. I'm sure you owe a certain amount of your current situation to your parents (as do I). How is that fair in a country where "all men are born free and equal".

 

Good money compared to a merchant banker?

 

I'm sure free education isn't as good as expensive education, and don't get me started on student loans or academia in general.
I'm running out of steam on this, perhaps we should just agree to differ. You keep doing what you're doing and I will, one day, bring down the oppressive monetary system)). No, seriously, I will.

 

i think communism screwed up by not lettin people choose their own beliefs. i think we can achieve peace through understanding not by denying. but the reason communism wont ever work in a large scale sense is because eventually we are all listenin to some pain in the butt dictator and havin to do what he tells us to do instead of really bein free. i think it will continue to work in small commune like enviroments

 

Yes, and they get the most out of it, most times far far more than they need, sometimes unimagineably more than they need (spending $10 per hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, it would take 150 lifetimes from birth to death, non stop, to spend a billion dollars. To a few people a billion dollars isn't really all that much money)

But, whatever you do, don't you think it is natural to want to get better at it? What's the point of rewarding something that everyone wants to do while effectively punishing (by withholding money) those that are for whatever reason unable. Holding a CDL licence, for example (if that's the same as an HGV licence in this country), would be a useful and fulfilling thing to do (for those that like that kinda thing) whether you got extra money for it or not. It would give you the power to transport a lot of stuff at once, isn't that reward enough in itself?

Each will give you more direct power to do more in that field.

A licenced plumber will be more popular than an unlicenced one, he'll be able to help more people out and they will be more likely to do something for him in return.

It is true that simply staying in the same field, doing the same old crap, day in, day out, gets you promotions and more money but I don't think this should be encouraged. I believe in diversity - a change is as good as a break and all that. If you work in front of a computer, you should be able to do some hard physical labour one day a week. Wouldn't that be a relief? But in society it is seen as foolish to do one thing which will earn you less money than something else you are capable of, even if it's only some of the time (if you can make sense of that ungainly sentance).

Good for your Dad. I'm not saying it's impossible to succeed in the monetary system, it's just extremely hard if you start with little or nothing (so all credit to your dad). Politics have evolved a long way towards freedom and fairness over the centuries. I just think we are approaching the next stage.

Ask me what the next stage will be.

 

ONCE AGAIN:

WHO FUNDED COMMUNISM??

 

I've spent some time on benefits, contributing nothing to the state that was paying for me to live, and it's shit. It really makes a person feel worthless. There is a natural instinct to want to contribute, be useful. You may have never noticed it because you've never been unemployed for a long time (?) but I assure you it's there.

If you were working on something that interested you, something that you benefitted from, or something for someone who you wanted to help for whatever reason, I think you would learn what you needed to know in order to do that. I think individual motivations are far more honourable than State ones, eg about 85% (I forget the exact figure but in the eighties) of americans wanted George Bush to do something about the environment at the G8 but he didn't because rich fucks who don't give a fuck (of whom he is one) persuaded him not to.

Why does someone become a scientist if not to help mankind in some way? If they (scientists) were all free to work on whatever project they felt they would make the most difference on, I'm pretty sure benficial advantages in the form of cleaner power sources and transport and, well, everything would be huge. Tons of people want to be doctors because of the respect it earns them, or want to be nurses because they get to help people (certainly, nurses are not paid enough considering what they have to do). People are good. They seriously just don't know themselves well enough, that goes for you too. Wasted potential is a terrible thing, especially when that potential is your own.

Increased skills would still be beneficial to you without money, there would still be motivation to improve yourself. There would still be personal interactions where certain people will only do something for you if you can do something for them. There would still be individuality and even heirarchy to an extent. I just think skills are a more important factor in deciding this heirarchy than your ability to make (or even just hold on to) money.

Wouldn't you have preferred, if you'd had the chance, to start using what you knew in a useful way rather than in academic excercises? And learning along the way. That's a slightly moot point because the choice would be there either way.

Why become licenced? Well, it's universal evidence that you're good at what you do, and it would be important to convince people that you're good at what you do.

You pick up the trash in your home, don't you. It wouldn't take long before the rubbish (sorry, I can't keep saying trash, it's too alien) built up to such an extent that people would want to do something about it. Maybe you want to learn something and there's this guy who can teach you it. He says to you he'll teach you but only on the condition that you go out and pick up a garbage (whoops) bag full of rubbish (that's better) every day before class begins. Maybe kids could be told to do it - adults manage to get them to do all kinds of things they don't want to do. Maybe for the really bad jobs (sewage, whatever) criminals could be sentanced to do it. As for flipping burgers - it's not so bad when you're doing it for your own and friends' meal. It's just when you have to do it all day every (week)day for months that it becomes a chore.

Why would anyone work for a lord? What means of control would he have over them? There are similarities between feudalism and large corporations, I think this would be further from feudalism than today's world.

 

Bush well die and 50 other president well take over. and no one is going to give UP theyr 450 H.P SUV .

 

You're just closed off to possibilities. Like I said before, I will bring down the monetary system. I will change the world. I'm just gonna make it easy for people.

Goodnight.

 

Yeah, true. You're an IT guy. Are you good at website design, Java and Javascript, PHP etc?

 

Darn, you probably can't help then. I'll outline the idea anyway. Actually, I'll cut and paste it from another thread where I've described it before...

Do you see how this would be a start?

 

You'd need about 3 layers of (sub)menus on the skills dropdowns which would be a bit inelegant. Probably a similar amount on the goods. I can't thinkof any other way to do it though because each seperate skill would have to be a property with a value (between say 1 & 5 depending on how advanced that skill can get) which represents the skill level of the user. It would need to be a property so it can be displayed on the map, it couldn't just be information because different people might describe the same skill in different ways.