Thought without limit

To think is to imagine. Without the imagination, we would not have most of the techological, scientific, innovative things that we daily depend upon to be there for us.

The imagination is so powerful that it can construct anything. The imagination can conceptualize that which does not exist.

When it comes to the imagination, how does one properly function between its persistent calling and that of the daily mundane trudge through life that we perceive to be reality?

When does imagination end and reality begin? Of course, we already have a perfectly viable universal understanding of that which separates reality from imagination.

It is referred to, in its simplest form, as logic. Reason, if one would.

One can use all the tricks in the book to discount that which is apparently true, but unfortunately logic will always win because logic is veritably grounded in reality.

What we understand as reality can only be that as we understand and perceive it to be. It cannot be something else or something more that is invisible, because to state that there is something for which we cannot currently account is to give summarily over to an overactive imagination.

Reality itself states, through countless centuries of study relating to the natural world around us, that nothing of supernaturla properties exists.

That which was unknown or seemed unnatural could always be explained through natural explanations. That which could not be properly explained, was not given the title of "supernatural" by anyone except those with their overactive imaginations. After all, those who sought answers, rather than already thinking they had the answers, understood that the answer for the time was simply "I don't know."

In a world where we place a great deal of emphasis on the imagination, whereby it catches our interests through the media via books and movies, it is understandable that people are easily confused between fiction and non-fiction.

In a world where the truth is less important than the latest comforting lie that suits the individual, a diet that does not work or a self-help book that does anything except, it is no wonder that people end up confused. After all, it has always been the job of those creating the ideas to place in the minds of others to ensure they end up as confused and as compliant as possible.

Gullibility. It is a big word, and for a reason. Too many people are gulllible to that which they want to believe is true rather than accepting the fact of the truth that they cannot have what they want. They create their own reality rather than accepting reality as it is.

The mind is capable of far more than merely sitting as matter in a vat. The mind creates for most their own reality, and unfortunately for them it is an unreality that they perceive as real.

Religion is one of those unrealities. It is nothing more than the comforting lie man has told himself in order that he can escape the harsh reality of life.

There are many other unrealities man convinces himself are real, for certain, but religion just happens to be the one that is the most detrimental to man's progress as a species.

The species cannot survive when it is reliant upon a comforting lie, because the lie will always prevent the progress that is needed. The religious lie is so clouded in mutterings of live and let live that the dangers of the lie are ignored for the continuance of harm that the lie produces.

The religious lie can only end when man stops making excuses for the that which has only and still only wants to see a world of Stepford Christians than a Universal Diversity.

Thought without limit creates the religious lie that pollutes the mind. Thought without limit can also create the freedom from religion that cleans the mind.

 

For me the mind is "supernatural" (Without even having to posit "special" powers) in and of itself; science has brought us many wonderful things (and woes,by the way) but still cannot explain how "imagination" comes to be.Through my former experiences with deep meditation, (which I won't go into here) I have come to believe there is more to this world than just logic and a simple material interpretation of phenomena.I am not saying that there is a "non-materiality",rather that there may yet still be a materiality of an order that is higher than our present means of comprehension.And I don't have to be "religious" to make this assertion.

 

the physical dependence is a limit , and an imagination is suppressed by
that boundary . it's a good enough reason for a crazy holy man to walk
about in tatters and see the world with rainbow eyes .

i think your version of thought without limit would bomb a church .

should you be so kind as not to do that , then logically you can become
more kind . the more you love the more you can know and one thing to
know is appropriate technology ... like wearing no shoes on a sunny day ,
like a sacred bum of a man is understanding wholesomeness and is quite
beyond the reality of abusiveness . certainly there'll be some idiot that will
passionately desire to impose shoes upon him and then perfume his cat too .

 

I like the first half of your post. Then it gets the same old conviction and scapegoating again. Pondering these things again and again can be very useful, making endless posts and threads about your dogmatic conviction that all religion is a lie (not the word I would choose) seems not useful. I am wondering, do you yourself find that it is a constructive way to bring clarity in the world?

 

How do you know that? Do you have faith in logic? There are basically two kinds of logic: deductive logic, which doesn't really tell us anything new about "reality", but enables us to see the implications of our premises; and inductive logic, which requires inference. Inference, by definition, is a form of interpretation. And interpretation can always be influenced by subjective factors, which is one reason why science is always tentative.

There are phenomena accepted by science that seem to push at the bounds of logic. QM would fall into that category. How could logic account for quantum non-locality, the effects of observers on the status of wave versus particle, etc.? And there are respected atheist physicists (e.g., Krauss, Stenger) who say something can come from nothing.

Logic is indispensable as an analytical tool, and can help us sort out spurious claims from valid one--e.g., spotting contradictions in "inerrant" scripture. Logic is, or should be, a constraint on our beliefs. God cannot make a rock He cannot lift, etc. Yet it is no substitute for good judgment which incorporates the lessons of experience and intuition. Nor does it rule out leaps of faith, if people are aware that they're leaping.

 

Reality is reality, but some realities were once a dream like going to the moon, so imagination is very important.....as well.....Creativity is an outlet for that......writing, painting, etc.....imagining a better world.....
One can create their own reality by what they think..... although, sometimes, self doubt and confusion can ensue making things difficult...I like your post....

 

Reality is non-local, nor is it remote so anything you can say of yourself that does not meet these criteria is a fantasy.

 

My reality is pretty local...Or am I being quotidian.

 

There are no special or hard cases reality is shared. By non-local, nor remote, I mean no where absent and no where excluded.

 

Speaking of logic, consider this:
All Xs are Y. Igor is an X. Is Igor a Y? Of course. It's a logically valid deduction.
What about this one? Some Xs are Y. Igor is an X. Can we conclude that Igor is also Y. Of course not. That would be an invalid deductions, violating the most elementary principles of logic.

Now what about this? Some religious folks are dangerous fools and lunatics.
Igor is religious. Can we conclude that Igor is a dangerous fool and lunatic?
Obviously not, for the reason I just explained.

You might ponder this when composing your next rant against religion and for logic.

 

thedope:

Bullshit.

So that's what you meant? Why not just say it like that?

 

I think you just quoted him saying it like that

 

:-D No shit. His explanation when Fairlight couldn't make sense of what he thinks is another way of saying it. Do you think it is too?

 

Ask fairlight if I make sense. You aren't considering as usual all the syllables before you claim bullshit. Reverse engineer the fucker, reality = (non-local + not remote,). The equation is not just reality = non-local. In addition as the equation continues, in determining where imagination and reality coincide anything you can say of yourself that does not meet these criteria is a fantasy. Reality is not confined to either here nor there but it is everywhere at once and you are not separate from reality.

 

without the imagination, we would simply not be sapient. at all. period.

the only difference between sapience and sentience is this drive to create.

we don't KNOW that other life form on our own planet, some of them, lack our own kind of imagination. we can only observe far less expression of it among them then ourselves.

we live in a universe, that is not limited even to our own capacities to imagine.

nor would a god or godlike beings be limited in such manor.

the massive degree of diversity involved, does however, strongly suggest the work of far more then any single awareness, no matter how otherwise unlimited.

 

excessive division of the whole into diversity is maddening . as it
may be unmercilessly employed to torment the too comfortably
reasonable the god gives a law that demands a humility from
the divider . of one thing it is forbidden to divide - your mother .

 

Or the simple mathematics of probable expression

 

Science is the result of imaginative logic experimentally tested against the real world. Religions are a collection of memes that have proven effective over time in the real world through cultural evolution. Modern liberal culture is imaginative logic untested against anything. It is pure garbage.

 

I understand the sentiment. The security of all probing is metered out in time. A new idea or any must be cultivated to endure changing elements. How long does it take,... a moments decision followed by another moments decision and yet another.
Too often are projects left uncompleted before their potential is realized and we might call those the kids that didn't make it. What is practical is what we practice at.

 

Is it? I'm not so sure. A lot of thinking requires very little imagination.

Logic and reason in themselves are not capable of ascertaining the truth. I think that's something that both scientists and the religious would both have to agree with.One can begin with a false set of premises and build a beautifully logical system on that basis, as did the medieval Christian philosophers.

Or by thinking, you might arrive at the idea, as did the ancient Greeks, that every thing is made up of atoms. But the results of such thinking cannot be shown to be valid unless you have science.

No amount of logic or reason, and no religion made any real headway in discovering even the basics of life until the introduction of the scientific method.

Imagination feeds some mystery within us that science in it's current state, religion, philosophy etc cannot satisfy. If we don't destroy ourselves, and our culture goes on for another 50 years, science may by then have begun to seriously investigate this peculiar phenomenon.