Thought is independent of time

Consciousness isn't independent of the physical.

 

You have proof of this? Of course not... please don't state conjecture as fact

Until that trip, I found it quite easy to accept that we would be no more than dust.

 

time, like spirit, is not localized in space.
thought is not localized to temporal, spacial, or spiritual environment.
which is not to say it lacks a footprint.

 

Tasty:

lol, but you just wrote

"I think time is a limitation of the physical world - consciousness is independent of that. "

It isn't. Being conscious, you don't know consciousness is independent of anything. The same goes for your physicality. Interdependency is no-ones bitch. :-D
The conjecture's all yours. It's as though you're independent! ;-D

themnax:

Where else is it localized themnax?

 

I prefaced it with *i think*

It seems like a rather closed of way of thinking... add to the ideas, don't close them off

 

it isn't, which is rather the point. it's not without a kind of temporal equivelant of mass. but it isn't tied to any 'where', 'when' even the third fraime of reference, which purely as an arbitrary convenience i have labeled "spirit".

 

I was watching something and just had a mini-realisation.

I've been complaining for years that "I" used to feel more connected to my body when I was younger... that there was less of a delay between me and the outside world.

Put it down to just getting older and delays in electrical communication or similar.

But... it comes back during and for a while after a trip.

Maybe this feeling of disconnection, this feeling of delay is related to the extra barriers built up by my ego.

When you get rid of those barriers, you're more closely connected with your consciousness?

How awesome would that be

 

i think your thread might have gotten "better" responses had you posted it in the psychedelic forum

 

Ah well...

Maybe a mod could move if they think it's more appropriate here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC-Je_Nt6Cs"]Dr. Quantum - The Real Self behind the Ego (caught by science) - YouTube

 

Tasty:

I'm not closing anything off, not having time independent of thought. :-D

I've never believed in disembodiment.

themnax:

Time is always perception. It's as local as you get! Get it?! ;-D
Time isn't nothing, nothing is! Time's ours through and through. Pass it on by all means. lol

 

time is independent of thought

 

Can they measure the duration of the thought alone, though? It's not necessarily a question of how long the causes of a thought take.

 

False. This statement demonstrates common misunderstanding of scientific theory and superposition.

All particles have energy. Energy is movement/time.

Thread moved to appropriate location, fantasizing about self existing beyond the physical and natural...

 

I suggest you do some more reading, you just told an astrophysicist he's wrong about a rather simple concept If you were referring to 'standard' particles, then I would be closer to agreeing with you. Try to grasp the concept of quantum entanglement, nonlocal particles can share information in an instant - irrelevant of distance between them.

Looking at your sig, you seem to vehemently detest the idea that more is possible. What makes you so angry about the idea?

Even when I was strictly tied to physical ideology, I didn't hate the idea that there was more... Even if I may have laughed at some people for their ideas.

It's ignorant to believe our knowledge is comprehensive and that I've known for a long time.

 

Exactly... are they measuring the time a thought takes or the time it takes to communicate a thought?

The thought itself seemingly happens in an instant when all information is present.

If each thought was bound by these communications pathways... would a thought not take a lot longer due to the internal communication required?

 

This is a very fascinating subject. Part of the problem is that within our physical reality, we are trapped in time. We are always a moment behind now. This means that we are not even really within the now.

How can we rationally percieve if consciousness can exist out of time, when we can barely experience the here and now. By the time I have conceived of the now, it has already passed. Yet surely it flows with the now---even if it is emergent from physical matter as Dejavu would suggest, it exists in that now, that we can't hardly experience.

Tastyweat brought up the problem of the qunatum wave/particle and the implications of it requiring an observer. Scientists discovered that once they try to determine the wave/particle measurement after the fact, when it could only be one or the other decided without no observed stimulus, that the results clearly determined that it was a particle if a particle was measured, or a wave if a wave was measured at the same rate as if it had been measured prior to the point where it must be one or the other (I know I screwed up the explanation----but I'm tired). IN other words, the measuring devices were moved past the slits, at which point the results cannot change, but must already be a pattern resulting from a particle or a wave. No matter how they rework the experiments, it suggests that the particle knew ahead of time how it was going to be measured. But it is the observer who determines how it will be measured, and the observer by measuring, that determines if it is a particle or a wave. If consciously we cannot know the 'now,' then how could we know whether our conscious decision to measure a particle vs a wave, which we perceive of as having done in the instant past now, was not in fact also affecting that particle in our perceptual past---in other words, moments before the now, when that particle had to manifest as either a particle or a wave, in order to pass through the slits as such.

(And this brings us back to the problem for a materialist-emergent-conscious view of the universe, that quantum physics keeps pointing to the concept that this universe exists as it is because it is consciously determined. The materilist work-around is to create multiple universes sufficient to allow all possiblities. But when you work out the implications that theory brings up, it becomes far more weird and fantastic (and fantastically grand beyond belief) then theorizing that consciousness determines the universe).

If consciousness is a product of time, and emerges from the confines of materialism, I cannot see how it would be possible to affect a particle in the past.

Then consider clairvoyant experiences. Not everyone has them, and but a lot of people have experienced a sense of them. For example when a loved one is going to die. Whenever my wife smells incense or a candle, and there is no incense or candle burning, a family member of her's dies, usually within a few years (I'm joking!!)---it is a matter of days. I have travelled to places I have never been before, and recognize it because I had seen it before. How did I know I would see what I saw and recognize a place I had never been to? My mom used to always get bad feelings before something bad would happen, she felt this the strongest when I was a young teen. She did not like it, and pushed that out of her life. But there were numerous times when she freaked us out over that.

In my own experiments with shamanic drumming, experiments anyone can do I think, I communicated with a spirit helper (or as I would rationally interpret it, a Jungian archetypical motif). But the communication exchange (conversation) was as if it occured in a single moment. I would then go through the exercise of vocalizing it out with in my mind, because I had trouble with the concept of it being a single moment--it is as if I wanted it to be a linear progression of time, even though it happened within an instant.

As a teenager one time, I sat meditating to a Moody Blues album at my Aunt & Uncle's house up in Seattle. I was visiting them for a few weeks that summer and was therefore drug-free and all that stuff. But I was sitting there deep inside myself, eyes closed, listening to the Future' Day's Past album (I forget the name)---all of a sudden I felt really relaxed, like I was suddenly blending into the room or soemthing, and then it was like a ball of knowledge exploded inside my head. I instantly had a deep insight into the natiure of how we are all interconnected with the universe. It wasn't thought out, or dreamed, or rationalized---it was just an instant understanding. I felt like it was so much understanding that moments later I had lost much of it---only retained the basics of what for a single moment in time, I understood very deeply. These things are not perceptions in time, because to be in time, they would have to be linear.

 

Wolf:

What is suggested is that we make our own time, not that thought is independent of it. One doesn't have to be outside of a thing to act upon it. Determinism suits no-one. lol