This war is wrong!!!

Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by Chongo Blanco, May 16, 2004.

  1. Chongo Blanco

    Chongo Blanco Banned

    I usually don't do "what if" questions, but if this war is wrong, which many believe is so, then what other routes should the world community have taken??

    -If want to change our policies in the future, we need to do something about it before it is too late. I would like people to discuss what other options we could have taken to deal with Iraq, as well as other countries, such as North Korea.
     
  2. Balbus

    Balbus Members

    The thing is the US could be such a great force for good but its recent history has more often as not been one of missed opportunities.

    The US has to stop thinking almost exclusively of itself and start been a team player. It’s arrogance and hypocrisy in the Iraqi affair is a perfect example of this problem. The thing is that due to ignorance or worse delusion many Americans are unaware of just how badly their governments fuck up.

    Saddam didn’t suddenly become evil in 1990 be was always an evil bastard the thing was that before he invaded Kuwait Americans were mostly indifferent to his evils and some even supported him.

    Oh I think the US needs to change its policies but that will only happens when those Americans that wallow in ignorance stop blindly accepting what their political elite spoon-feeds them.

    Chongo Blanco you have at least taken the first step by realising that you are ignorant.

     
  3. Megara

    Megara Banned

    If every country on earth acted like that, there would be no war. Sadly, America, Canada, England, France, Germany, etc, ALL care about themselves first and foremost. That is the point of government afterall.

    Americans are no more greedy than canadians or french. We all look out for our own self interest. You think france and germany and russia were trying to stop the war because they are great humanitarians? No, it had a lot to do with illegal contracts that they had made with saddam. It had to do with covering their ass with the oil for food scandal(russia/france especially). these people werent "team players." They were acting in their own interest. Democracy in this region will help EVERYONE. And if you havent noticed, the contracts have been pretty well spread out...of the 7 billion dollars in contracts, Australia has received over 1 billion worth...if you want to break it down by size of contribution to the war efforts...thats VERY VERY generous.
     
  4. moonshyne

    moonshyne Approved by the FDA

    Quote from balbus:
    "Chongo Blanco you have at least taken the first step by realising that you are ignorant."

    I really hope that wasn't meant in any asshole sort of way. I don't see how you can expect people to take you seriously when you insult them

    As for your questions, chongo, I'm not really sure if there is an answer...at least maybe not the kind your looking for. The kind of changes I'd personally like to see would require that we make a complete overhaul of the entire system, and build it back from the ground up. As I see it, our current government has been corrupted for far too long to simply insert some changes and new policies here and there and expect them to actually work. When you have presidents, vice presidents, senators and congressmen break laws and squeeze through loopholes with no repercussions whatsoever, it becomes obvious that no amount of rewritten law can do much about it.

    We live under the illusion of democracy. I say that Bu$h was PUT in the office by oil and other interests. You ("you" meaning the average amerikan) tell me that's impossible because it's the AMERICAN PEOPLE who voted for him. Think of it this way, just as an example....how many presidential candidates were you aware of for the election year 2000? For most americans, there were only 3 or 4...Truth is there were something like 70. But the other 60+ guys lacked the big money funding the other guys had...funding that paid for their commercials and promotions, banners and flyers, even their suits and ties. Most ameriKKKan's are only exposed to what the rich and influential want you to see. If you want to call that democracy, go ahead.

    That's only one example of the policies and laws I think need to be rebuilt. Nothing can ever be accomplished by rewritting laws and shit when those bastards are the ones picking which laws will be written. I hope you realize that I could go on like this forever. (^.~)

    As far as saddam goes, if amerikkkan's were so worried about him being such an evil dude, why the fuck did they allow Bu$h Sr. to sell him chemicals and weapons? Fact is, no one fucking gave a shit about Iraq until it became PC to suddenly care. All that bastard has to do is throw around the word terrorists and then sit back and watch his flock suddenly perk their ears.

    "We have to get the oi---i mean terrorists out of Iraq."
     
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Members

    Sadly, America, Canada, England, France, Germany, etc, ALL care about themselves first and foremost. That is the point of government afterall

    Canada, UK (that’s England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland), France, Germany and many more have all signed up to the Kyoto agreement. The US pulled out.

    Canada, UK (that’s England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland), France, Germany and many more have all signed up to the International criminal court. The US refuses to and is reported to be trying to make sure it cannot work effectively.

    They seem to be playing as a team why not the US?

     
  6. Balbus

    Balbus Members

    "Chongo Blanco you have at least taken the first step by realising that you are ignorant."

    I really hope that wasn't meant in any asshole sort of way. I don't see how you can expect people to take you seriously when you insult them


    Dear Moon

    No honestly CB has admitted he is ignorant about US politics and foriegn policy. And that is a good thing nobody knows everything and admitting you don’t is the first step to getting educated.

    The thing here is that CB often gives an opinion on things without seeming to have researched the subject at all. While I know nothing about playing the tuba (I’m ignorant on that subject), but then I would not try to tell others how to play it.






     
  7. akhc

    akhc Member

    It's a sad day when the whole point of government is to look after one nation's interest.. and let the rest of the world go to pot? Ever here the phrase "No man is an island.. "?

    Do u really think that the US has sunk the billions of dollars to liberate Iraq? Why not liberate all the other countries in Africa/Asia that haven't got the resources u're interested in? As for democracy in the region benefitting all.. what democracy is there to an elected govt in Iraq that kowtows to the US administration/ambassador. And btw what happens if the govt that the Iraqi people choose contain fanatical islamic clerics who are anti-US? Will they be ousted from govt and another election held till u get a representative govt in Iraq that suits the Americans?

    I'm not anti-American. I love the country and it's people.. I've been there and sampled their friendliness. There are places in the US I would love to reitre to. What I dislike is the making of the world to suit "American" policy that in reality is dictated by a minority of influential behind the scenes people that are hell bent on making sure their pockets are lined and let the world bedamned.
     
  8. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Kyoto is anti very anti american business. When countries like INdia and China are allowed to pollute FREELY it is absolute BS....when countries like Ireland are allowed to POLLUTE MORE, it is absolute BS. I am all for across the board cutbacks... Record everyones levels of green house emissions and then decide how much to cut back...10%, 20% or whatever. Force EVERYONE to do that. But while some countries are labeled 'developing' and free to pollute..the US will not sign up. Bush has said that was the very flaw in the system and i agree.

    as for the ICC. We are not going to sign away our sovereignty to try our own people and put them up for a witchhunt. We can try our own people. Last thing we need is countries like syria and libya telling us we are war criminals...it is bad enough that they run the freaking human rights comission of the UN. Try war crimes before the UNSC...or allow the 5 perm members to be on the court at all times with a veto..and then we'll talk
     
  9. Megara

    Megara Banned

    That is the point of government my friend. To protect its people and to benefit them. I'll tell you why iraq and not some place else. Iraq is in a very key position in the world. It is in the middle east and yes it does sit on a hell of a lot of oil. More importantly than oil(yes there is something more important than oil) is its location in the middle east. THe middle east breeds countless terrorists that kill innocents around the world. Installing a democracy there will help get rid of terrorists....if we can get one installed in iraq, i think the rest of the middle east will fall within 50 years. That will cut down on world terrorism GREATLY. Yep i think you're right, we arent doing it to liberate the people. Bush probably doesnt give two shits about iraqis, nor most people around the world. We are doing it for our own benefit. A world with less terrorists benefits america more than anyone. We are selfish, very selfish. However, this bit of selfishness will help the world.
     
  10. akhc

    akhc Member

    no point in debating this then.. u obviously prefer to be selfish and protect your own self-interest first. when you grow up and become a little more caring perhaps we can have a conversation.
     
  11. Megara

    Megara Banned

    or conversely when you realize your government acts in the same way and awake to reality..perhaps we can.
     
  12. akhc

    akhc Member

    my last post on this one.. u're obviously going to say in reply that u live the life that has been handed you (and if govts manipulate countries to make it better for you then so much the better). would u say the same if u were the one being manipulated? say u were born iraqi?

    I know.. I know :). U're American :). Hoorah for you then :)!

    Damned.. these boards don't have a censor button :).
     
  13. Skyzar

    Skyzar Member

    Omg, fuck yourself?

    Get a dictionary and look-up terrorist. One who engages in terrorism. Terrorism?
    "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."Between nations who makes the law? Supposedly the United Nations, but what the fuck is the point of a united nations if it can be ignored with no reprecussions, proving that its sole-purpose, on the security side of the UN, is to be a fatass post office, rubber stamping anything America AGREES with, to give it an ounce of legitamacy.

    Who is the fucking terrorist? I hope to God another SuperPower comes quick to fucking set-up a base in our very own, and start elliminating anyone who fights back. But that makes me a hypocrite. Fuck me too please.
     
  14. Chongo Blanco

    Chongo Blanco Banned

    How is it that every topic leads to how evil Bush is and how wrong the war is. I started this thread with the premise that this war IS wrong, and what we COULD HAVE done different. So far I haven't heard anything I couldn't have read in any other thread. Now I don't claim to be conservative, liberal, democrat, republican, neo-con blood thirsty Amerikkkan, or any other label. But, some of peoples viewpoints in this forum are so left that somebody moderate cannot think that it isn't bullshit. If you think your viewpoints are valid, them back them up with some valid facts and points. I know emotions play such a big part and everybody here has probably posted before thinking, but why is it when somebody tries to get something across that isn't extreme liberal it is shunned?? Is everybody here that narrow minded??? Megara seems to be a little diverse in thinking which is very refreshing, I wish others would follow.

    -Also, I would still like to hear any alternative ideas people have on Iraq.
     
  15. Skyzar

    Skyzar Member

    so no response ? can you not recognize?
     
  16. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    Here is an option:

    We could have involved the UN. If they don't want to be involved than we wait until they are ready to be involved. What makes us the deciding factor on what is a threat, or when is it necessatry to take down another country's leader?

    If we are going to be a part of the UN, then we need to act like it. Not walk out every time they say something we don't like.

    Basically...we rushed into a war with Iraq. We still haven't found any weapons. We moved a bit too hasty...there is never a quick reason to take the offensive against a country. Iraq was not an immeadeate threat. Some saw North Korea is much more of a threat than Iraq ever was.

    Regardless...I think that America needs to stop acting like its shit don't stink. This country is just a baby. We have not been around long. Yet we act like we have been running things since day one.
     
  17. Chongo Blanco

    Chongo Blanco Banned

    Thank you for your response, and I don't mean to offend, but....

    -Since 1991 Iraq defied 17 U.N. Security Council resolutions. If the U.N. is to be involved, how many times can they threaten serious action and not follow through?

    - The UNSC resolutions called for Iraq to PROVE that they didn't have weapons. Hussein did not comply. Don't you think that Hussein gave up on diplomacy? If he was innocent, then why didn't he act like it?

    -I agree with you in the fact that Iraq was not an IMMEDIATE threat. (Our opinion).
    -I do not agree with North Korea being more of a threat, crazyhair can't even afford hairspray.

    Thanks for your response and I would like to hear more of them.
     
  18. Skyzar

    Skyzar Member

    Don't even talk about the UN security council, waste of time, all i have to say is Israel, and i hope most of you know what i mean. How do you know Saddam did not comply, were you there watching him not comply? "Saddam not compliing" War Starts. "No weapons found". ... connection...AH ! Syria (another oil CURSED country) must be harbouring the weapons..when will it stop? What level of stupidity can people reach?
     
  19. Skyzar

    Skyzar Member

    Bush was hellbent on going to war long-before 9/11 it just gave further reason to convince the public to go to war, how would Saddam show that he was totally complining? there is NO way, as whatever he does, people can make an excuse. Even if he did find a way to prove it, would you think Bush would just stop there ? (....vietnam?...)
     
  20. Skyzar

    Skyzar Member

    -_- --sorry---edit... "war.." with iraq..

    complying

    Whats the link with Saddam and 9/11 anyway?

    Apparently 50% of americans think that Saddam had something to do with it?
    Nice work Bush.
     

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