This is what Rudenoodle thinks Hippy Nature is. Anyone care to discuss it with him?

"Thank you for 'allowing' me to have an opinion"

I was defending you actually. I wasn't giving you 'permission'.

"And yes they are my real opinions, no I was not doing it for a "rise"."

Ok, that's fine. Your opinions don't seem very well thought out to me is all. Your opinions make vast generalizations about how the 'peace and love' stance originates. Although, you do a good job pegging the 'blind' 'followers' of the 'hippy stance'. There are unthinking folk within any ideology, doesn't mean every one of them are unthinking.


"It seems as though there is plenty of faith involved in there "peace and love" stance."


It does involve faith, but it isn't a blind faith. There is logic behind it. I think faith is a very important aspect of the human condition. Ideas have a way of fulfilling themselves; it's like a self-fullfilling propecy. If it's believed strongly enough, and practiced, then it will become real. Same thing goes for the war mentality. And frankly, I think that there is a lot more faith in the belief that wars, globalization, and commercial will eventually bring about peace. I think the opposite is true. Although, I do like the 'citizen of the world' way of thinking. That doesn't necessarily mean going against all aspects of helping other nations. It's just in the way it is handled that really matters. I understand the need for a military but sometimes it gets out of hand and I believe the peace corps has done a lot more good for the world than offensive military action.

"Hippies want peace and love but are against all war it would seem, they would rather not hear news of 120,000 marsh Arabs who's lives were destroyed by a racist dictator."

Again, that's a generalization. That also assumes that the best course of action is direct offensive strikes. I wouldn't say that your generalizations doesn't have any merit. It does, and there are people that think in the myopic way that you describe. But I think that way of thinking limits our understanding of each others worldviews.


"The only thing the hippie movement does now is spread disinformation."

That's both true and untrue. Many groups of people spread misinformation. I think neo-conservatives have a much worse record than hippies for this.

"I didn't write my signature its called a quote."

Ya, I am pretty sure I know what a quote is. But quotes are generally used to give a quick snapshot of the person's worldview. I don't know the context that quote is being used to describe


Like OWB has said, a change in worldview is an important step towards peace. That step is usually overlooked because it seems naive to most people. Change begins at the individual level. It always has.

Empowering the individual would eventually do away with the need for a leader.


Also, I want to add that short stanza quips have a lot of thought behind them. This is usually overlooked because it lacks in context, but there is a lot of context and deep thinking involved.

 

Again everything you say would sound great in a perfect world where people respond to reason and don't kill each other over the color clothes they wear.

To bad we don't live in that world,

"It does involve faith, but it isn't a blind faith. There is logic behind it"

Can you show me the logic in saying it is wrong to let a dictator commit genocide on his people but it is also wrong to stop him using military force?

It would seem that if the U.S government was to embrace "hippie" ideology religious fundamentalists and genocidal dictators would have a field day culling off undesirables in there respected nations.

The hippie ideology is entirely dependent on other people keeping them safe and letting them sell t-shirts in peace.

Peace and love can't and wont change the world, it can barely even sell records anymore.

To stand behind such an abstract and useless ideology in such an important time in history only shows that there are still people who can be easily lumped together and categorized.

I guess some people are just looking for a place to belong and a sense of diluted camaraderie.

If you don't want to buy the $25 T-shirt complete with peace sign iron on you can always buy the "Imagine" bumper sticker for $5, that way you can easily say you don't have an opinion on current events yourself, but that you are willing to let a dead millionaire speak for you.

 

Hey Brother Rudenoodle....in honor of the season , lets hear you say just ONE nice thing about us hippys ?

its not so hard to do , you must be able to think of ONE thing ???

 

Hippie Nature is knowing when enough is enough.

PAX

 

There are plenty of good things hippies have done, they helped end a land war in Vietnam, people who I would have considered hippies have made wonderful music and art throughout the years.

I once even heard of a hippie who created a website and awesome forum for others to use.

 

Here, Here I Love Hippies !!!!

 

YAY !!!!!!.....Thank YOU brotherRudenoodls... !!!

 

Yep, too bad.
Jesus, do you think we're all morons?

Do you understand that it is possible to disagree with a war because of the way it is conducted and not necessarily because of the reasons used to justify it by the government?

I guess you don't mean civil disobedience. No, that's never done ANY good to the world...

The fact that you are STILL lumping us all together despite seeing how different we all are says more about your own inflexibility than ours.

OR we could possibly feel that a little more compassion in the world isn't necessarily a bad thing- that less stupidity and back-stabbing should be acceptable- that more giving and less hoarding piles of shit should take place. I don't see how this should annoy you so much. If you're upset with the extremists, say so, but just know that we are not ALL floating on a cloud of ignorance thinking love will solve everything. COMPASSION is key. Doesn't mean that all of us would go so far as to not defend ourselves or others we care about if put on the spot. We just don't think it ALWAYS has to be the answer.

Srsly? This is getting old... You need a new gimmick.

 

You could always stop quoting me if you don't like the things that I am saying,

What is it that you have defended?

"Do you understand that it is possible to disagree with a war because of the way it is conducted and not necessarily because of the reasons used to justify it by the government?"

How do you disagree witht he way this war is being staged and run?

Are you upset because people are dieing?

Do you not care about the thousands of lives that have been destroyed by religious extremism?

What would be your plan or lack of thereof for stopping atrocities like these?

Ethnic Cleansing: The two dominant ethnicities of Iraq have traditionally been Arabs in south and central Iraq, and Kurds in the north and northeast, particularly along the Iranian border. Hussein long viewed ethnic Kurds as a long-term threat to Iraq's survival, and the oppression and extermination of the Kurds was one of his administration's highest priorities.

Religious Persecution: The Baath Party was dominated by Sunni Muslims, who made up only about one-third of Iraq's general population; the other two-thirds was made up of Shiite Muslims, Shiism also happening to be the official religion of Iran. Throughout Hussein's tenure, and especially during the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988), he saw the marginalization and eventual elimination of Shiism as a necessary goal in the Arabization process, by which Iraq would purge itself of all perceived Iranian influence.

The Dujail Massacre of 1982: In July of 1982, several Shiite militants attempted to assassinate Saddam Hussein while he was riding through the city. Hussein responded by ordering the slaughter of some 148 residents, including dozens of children. This is the only war crime on which Hussein has been charged, and he will almost certainly be executed before any other charges go to trial.

The Barzani Clan Abductions of 1983: Masoud Barzani led the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), an ethnic Kurdish revolutionary group fighting Baathist oppression. After Barzani cast his lot with the Iranians in the Iran-Iraq War, Hussein had some 8,000 members of Barzani's clan, including hundreds of women and children, abducted. It is assumed that most were slaughtered; thousands have been discovered in mass graves in southern Iraq.

The al-Anfal Campaign: The worst human rights abuses of Hussein's tenure took place during the genocidal al-Anfal Campaign (1986-1989), in which Hussein's administration called for the extermination of every living thing--human or animal--in certain regions of the Kurdish north. All told, some 182,000 people--men, women, and children--were slaughtered, many through use of chemical weapons. The Halabja poison gas massacre of 1988 alone killed over 5,000 people. Hussein later blamed the attacks on the Iranians, and the Reagan administration, which supported Iraq in the Iran-Iraq War, helped promote this cover story.
The Campaign Against the Marsh Arabs: Hussein did not limit his genocide to identifiably Kurdish groups; he also targeted the predominantly Shiite Marsh Arabs of southeastern Iraq, the direct descendants of the ancient Mesopotamians. By destroying more than 95% of the region's marshes, he effectively depleted its food supply and destroyed the entire millennia-old culture, reducing the number of Marsh Arabs from 250,000 to approximately 30,000. It is unknown how much of this population drop can be attributed to direct starvation and how much to migration, but the human cost was unquestionably high.

The Post-Uprising Massacres of 1991: In the aftermath of Operation Desert Storm, the United States encouraged Kurds and Shiites to rebel against Hussein's regime--then withdrew and refused to support them, leaving an unknown number to be slaughtered. At one point, Hussein's regime killed as many as 2,000 suspected Kurdish rebels every day. Some two million Kurds hazarded the dangerous trek through the mountains to Iran and Turkey, hundreds of thousands dying in the process.

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/internationalhumanrights/p/saddam_hussein.htm

Would you let them go on for another 20 or 30 years?

I'm not in defense of the U.S government but if you believe there was no reason to go to war with Iraq other than the false pretense of WMD's or an oil reserve It would be my opinion that you are grossly under informed about the nature of middle eastern ideology.

Either that or you just don't care about poor people being executed in genocidal like proportions.

I wonder if Saddam Hussein wore a swastika armband and was killing white people if you would take more offense and more clearly understand what is at stake for some people.

 

Once again, you have grouped me in with one faction. Stop fucking doing that. Last time I'm gonna say it.
I'm not saying nothing should be done, but if you continue to say that the way this thing was done was flawless, then I'm sorry, but you are going to find a lot of opposition- not just here, but just about everywhere.
The president himself has stated that he regrets the way Iraq was handled... and yet you're not in defense of the government? Okeydoke.

 

Well, I'm not going to cry over it. We're on a discussion board, aren't we? I'm just sick of your stereotypes and I'm letting you know it. I'm sure you would like it if I just went away and let you paint us all as tree-hugging pacisfists-at-all-costs, but I'm not gonna. Sorry if that annoys you.

 

Once again who is the bigger hero the men in the tanks or the man standing in front of them?

 

Where did people get the idea that the best way to stop the killing of millions of people is to kill millions more and most of them not even the ones doing the killing?

 

I never said the operation was flawless, please stop trying to "group me in with one faction".

:boxing_smiley:

 

"Millions" have not been killed.


Can you give me a link of Iraq civilians killed by U.S military action?

V.S

Iraq civilians murdered by Saddam Hussein?

 

Rudenoodle: Merry Chirstmas I hope you get everything that you want from Santa and more.

PAX

 

I don't believe in Santa, but thanks anyways! :Angel_anim::reddevil::Chevy_anim:

 

Well then I hope XMAX goes well for you .

PAX

 

Hahaha, because that's so what I was doing...
I made that judgment call based on, not what others have shown me, but by the attitude you yourself are projecting when you get so uptight about someone criticizing the war. I wouldn't have said it if you hadn't gotten all mad and posted several paragraphs to my one sentence on the subject.

I'm going back to wrapping presents now.

 

Maybe I misread this but I fail to see where this says anything about Iraq, Saddam Hussein or U.S military action.