This is the Freedom we bring to Iraq

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You have to recruit people... that is not one person, people are not robots, they do not follow, and a war it a conflict between usually states not indiviudals hence why teh war on terror is a war on bullshit. Religious fanatics are not one one people as they follow religion not that individual made up idea.

 

There will always be corruptions, but it is a contradiction to tell another state to follow international law if you are breaking them yourself, you have no right to force ideas you do not believe in. We may as well accept that the world has no future of helping one another if a state does not follow onternational laws

 

I dont need to show the good, thats what you're doing =P We're like Ying and Yang, balancing it out together.

And yeah, my objective is to raise people's attention to how bad war is. I suppose it is inevitable that after this war only exists in history that there will be a new fight somewhere else and I'm just being optimistic in thinking that there could be lasting peace, as wars are started by a myriad of corces all coming together, but still I just want people to see how ugly it really is. If the world over everyone saw images like this, to better let them see what war is really like, they wouldn't be so quick to start them, or so quick to volunteer to fight them. I dont think a lot of people understand how devastating war really is. I know a lot of veterans from all wars come back home shadow's of themselves, completely torn apart because of what they have seen and what they have done. But then that generation gets old and passes on, and the people are ignorant to what devastating horror war really is and are happy and eager to go kill. People think war is almost like some video game, and I dont blame them for that assumption. Hell, the army is recruiting people through video games. People watch CNN and see bombs raining down on some distant city and they say "Look at how mighty our power is" but thats all they see. So they dont take into consideration the dead children in the city their might is bombing. They dont consider the homes and families being destroyed. They dont consider the journalists in the cross fire, they dont consider their own troops who died under their own fire, or the fire of the enemy seeking vengence for their own deaths suffered. Look at what our gunships do, at the end of that program. Its a little night vision screen with a crossair that they just pick off moving targets with. Just like some game. I've done that in games before. There's a serious rift in a lot of this between the workings of the death machines and the actually death.

Though I agree that all should be shown, good and bad, the people at home sitting at their TV wont really understand how horrible this destruction is. They wont grasp it. Then they'll go happily vote for some 'brave' leader such as bush, who will then send our brothers and sisters to fight and die. That's not fair to our troops, to be sent in there because of politics based on the ignorance of the public. Its not fair to the troops that our leaders can sit comfortably in the security of their white house and pentagon, planning out where other people will fight and die for their battles. This war is wrong. All war is wrong, even if fought by people with the best of intentions.

 

I don't think it is bullshit.. but as has been pointed out..it represents a fraction of what occured.. Nothing about the ceasfire..nothing about the removal of as many innocent people as possible...for starters..

I believe the war is legal.. and i can understand why those apposing the war think it to be illegal
I listened to
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4492439.stm

I guess many would support

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article6917.htm [that lovely guy from ICH again]

Those that want peace, we are working with.. those that want to take power and remove democracy and implement a islamic state..we are fighting. How can we return on terms of peace, when this is not what they want [and we have tried negotiations in the past]

 

Very true. Its starting to seem that what we are over there fighting against is becoming our way of fighting. Again, this blame rests mostly on the shoulders of those that start these wars, and not so much those that fight it.

 

you are right, we can not agree on everything, but it is better to come together and talk then just go and invade somewhere for personal gain in my opinion and that is all the US seems to be doing, we have to have an aim of peace even if we are pessimistic on if we will get there.

Yes these people hwo are fighting back are terrorist and I codemn what they do however seems it was us who invaded and we were told to spread democracy and frededom surely we should stick by our own rules or we are not advertising democracy very well.

We are becoming our own enemy because invading countries illegally, targetting civilians, only doing things for personal gain is going to gain a lot more hate in the future and consequences to pay, there will be many more people now willing to blow them all for the cause because of US foreign policy

 

If you don't like the west .. you can twist a 'foreign policy' any wich way you like... every time i read something like this ..it just seems like a huge conveniant excuse.. for 'killing infidels'.. Have you ever gone through some of there 'foreign policys' ?

 

I am not defending the terrorists or any other groups who defies international law, I just believe if we want to spread democracy and freedom we should follow the laws ourself and set a good example, just my opinion but I don't think we would have as many enemies if we did so

 

there are lots of countries in the world who could probably lov us to come and help them out, maybe all the dictatorships in Africa, the reasoning of the war was not the save the people, although that may be a positive outcome, if that was the reason we have a lot more work to do around the world yet

 

i would love the EU to help Africa out and I hope we do, personally. And rather socialist govt then dictatorships, but there are not many socialist govt in Africa in reality, more dictatorships.

 

Some of our 'enemies' including the fundemental islamic movements .. have had it in for us for hundreds if not thousands of years. I don't really believe it has much to do with the present foreign policy of any goverment..
.What international laws have 'we' broken ? Call me naive , but i think it helps perpetuate all of this has some rational erm rationale. Ultimately it boils down to killing all of the infidels and creating the perfect islamic state.

 

but many of these fundamental islamic extremists are trying to convince the youth of muslims that their way is right, and many young muslims are growing up angry and when asked why they do often comment it is because of the current US and UK gov'ts. And remember the London bombing were committed by British citizens, who actually blamed the war in Iraq for motives .

 

I might be a little off with my numbers here, but roughly a thousand years ago, the Islamic nation was a thriving successful place of knowlege and art. Baghdad was a city full of the world's leading philosophers and mathematicians. Up until a thousand years ago, that is, it was a great nation, then the Islamic empire suffered some losses against the Turks and Byzantines. And then this little thing called the Crusades came to town. Oh yeah, while 'the western world' was living in the Dark Ages and the Arabs were living the good life, the europeans came down and declared war on them over religion. Goddamn Fundamentalist Terrorist... oh wait, I mean Army of God, thats right, isn't it? I guess old habits die hard.

Also, as long as we continue this rediculous war, we're only going to perpetuate the hatred they have for us. Look how well the Israeli/Palestinian situation turned out. Just push em off to the side and they'll learn to love them. Right? Because being a third generation Palestinian kicked out of your homeland is really going to make you love the ones that kicked you out, right? So as long as we stay in Iraq and keep blowing shit up and showing them who's boss, eventually they'll just collectively say "Well, looks like those Americans are here to stay. Wanna grab some McDonalds?" Dream on, as long as we keep this up, violence will beget more violence.

 

Of course they and he blamed it on Iraq .. Infact it highlighted to me the idiocy of the reasoning [listening to the london bomber].. Those well versed in spouting out anti western rhetoric use the modern political paradigm to great effect. They can't really drag up age old conflicts and motives..as nobody but scholars would know what they were on about. So what to do ? Use the anti american anti British sentiment.. Placing in ever darn arguement you read around here [amd more] ..bobs your uncle .. perfect rationale for killing infidels..

You don't like what they do, but can see why they do it.. and on a few levels understand why.. they got you man.

 

why the fuck are we talking about thousand years ago ?

And, what does it have to do with today ?

Are you trying to justify the murder of innocent "infedals" ?

they were fucked over just like everyone else has been in the past, now live with it...

 

They're ruling me by my compassion and empathy for them!!! DAMN MY HUMAN EMOTIONS!!!!

 

lol, some compassion and empathy they show for us infedals...

if you are not worshiping "alah"[sp?], don't forget you are the enemy too...

 

You have empathy for people that wish to drag their country back 40 years or so [or should that be a thousand].

The Iraqi people as you know are not one block.. I have sympathy and empathy for the iraqi people that vote want peace and talk diplomacy..not shoot and bomb [that solves nothing as we may agree].

If you think 'puppet goverments' 'western lapdogs' etc etc is comeing about through the 'occupation'.. why are you saying you see both sides..when it seems you're just wishing to erm not [am i wrong ?].

 

they have got me then, for thinking of them as human beings, i can see why they do it, i could never applaud them, but the way the Western foreign policy and economic system is we must expect some backlash, and as soon as we do the govt uses it to diminish the civil liberties we apparently stand for, yes I have been had

 

Islam in Europe

IN 711, Tariq ibn Ziyad, at the head of a mainly Berber army, began the conquest of Spain and, by 733, the Muslims had reached as far north as Poitiers in France. This marked the start of a period of Islamic rule which continued until the fall of Granada in 1492 - the year that Columbus arrived in America. Many reminders of this period can still be found in the Iberian peninsula, including the name of Gibraltar (Jabal Tariq - "the mountain of Tariq"). Chronology of Muslims in Europe (711-1790)

not just us pesky europeans.. http://www.al-bab.com/arab/history.htm


"Remember that if you suffer a few moments in patience, you will afterward enjoy supreme delight. Do not imagine that your fate can be separated from mine, and rest assured that if you fall, I shall perish with you, or avenge you. You have heard that in this country there are a large number of ravishingly beautiful Greek maidens, their graceful forms are draped in sumptuous gowns on which gleam pearls, coral, and purest gold, and they live in the palaces of royal kings. The Commander of True Believers, Alwalid, son of Abdalmelik, has chosen you for this attack from among all his Arab warriors; and he promises that you shall become his comrades and shall hold the rank of kings in this country. Such is his confidence in your intrepidity. The one fruit which he desires to obtain from your bravery is that the word of God shall be exalted in this country, and that the true religion shall be established here. The spoils will belong to yourselves.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/711Tarik1.html