Thinkin' About Jesus

Wouldn't the best way to deduce if Jesus really existed be to study what the Roman empire was like at the time? To see how necessary an act of defiance was? What were the money changers really like? Was everyone shaking with fear, finding strength in money and riches in a society overrun with rampant selfishness and greed, and one guy was just like "Fuck this!" and started throwing over tables loaded with riches? I suppose that would be pretty shocking. Who knows how many people saw it, if it indeed occurred. Could it be self-evident that at some point in Roman history it was revealed that the emperor had no clothes?

 

What would inspire someone to make a vow of poverty ? Perhaps it could be to then pay no taxes that support wars
of domination and conquest . A direct tax revolt inspires govt domestic violence . Who can stand against the Beast ?

 

Constantine maybe needed new clothes. And it was under his patronage that Christianity as we know it came into being.

I like the idea of one guy who says fuck this - but I just don't think it's so simple. I think really that we need to go to a new level, a new consciousness, a new way of knowing who we are, what God is, what Christ means to us - everything. If we knock, it will be opened. Believe that if you can.

 

I'll do it, like I always have...I have nothing to fear.

 

Jesus did turn over the money changers table and accused them of turning his fathers (Jehovah) house into a cave of robbers. Jesus was the man. Nobody could stump him and he always had the perfect answer to any of his opposers questions.

 

What are money-changers ? Why where they were located ?

 

There's a really good book called 'The Early Church' by Henry Chadwick that gives a great background on what was happening back then. It tracks the history of the early Church (paying particular attention to the Roman Empire, which was beyond brutal and basically kept its citizens living in fear). I felt it was very objective, and highly recommend reading it.

I don't think JESUS was defiant, in as much as HE taught that we need to give to Caesar what is Caesar's (i.e. the Government and tax) in Mark 12:17; as well as the need for Christians to be both peace makers and peace keepers (see the Beattitudes in Matthew 5:1-12). I think (based on the texts I read whilst at seminary) that the Roman Empire became concerned at the attention that JESUS was receiving and feared that people would change their loyalty from the State to HIS ways. JESUS became a perceived threat to their power.

As thefutureawait says, the turning over of the table in Matthew 21:12-13 was about the money changers and merchants disrespecting HIS FATHER'S house. The merchants were offering sacrifices for the people to buy (at a substantial cost!) when JESUS was coming to offer HIMSELF as the ultimate sacrifice (freely given so that we can freely receive it).

@tikoo - It is my understanding that the money changers (and merchants) were business men who sat outside the Temple (most likely in the courtyards) and sold the Jewish people animals (i.e. doves) that they could take into the Temple as an atoning sacrifice for their sins.

Peace.

 

Uhm, is that why his jewish fellow men are usually held responsible?
The Pharisees had the biggest issues with him when he was still alive. His following and impact in the roman empire really became meaningful some time after his death.

 

Hi Asmodean,

I'm not going to suggest that his Jewish brothers and sisters were responsible. I guess it depends whether or not you see JESUS' death as being divinely orchestrated for a greater purpose.

I'm just curious, what are you basing that second statement on? I think you'll find in the book fo Acts (and the writings of the early Church fathers) that the Gospel message spread very quickly from the persecution that the early Church experienced, given that many Christians fled to the surrounding regions and proclaimed the message there. But yes, Christianity only became the official religion of the Roman Empire with Constantine, but the early Church was still very much present (and growing).

Blessings ☺

 

Jesus the God-man : The man is lost to history , and the good Spirit is formless . I'd think any real
concern for Jesus' existence is only of what you experience , not dependent on it having form yet
surely trusting it is life . Having no form can be extended to namelessness also . As a Christian and
never rebellious , and afterwhile and as an old man , this day , in respecting formlessness , I don't think
particularly about Jesus . But sometimes ... well , thanks to those Essene women who healed almost
instantly a very hobbling injury after I'd been whacked in the leg by invisible and strange hippie witches .

 

The bible.

 

Thou art God !

 

Our Father , who iz Zart 'n heaven
a halo be thy name

Last night I dream zart zart zart zart zart - 5 being complete like the hand of Oneness .

Oh?

 

Thou art God also Mally. I grok.

 

I always wonder about the theories that Jesus was a visitor from another planet, sent to earth due to their worries about our destructive nature.
The one comforting thought, is if their is any truth in the theory and life exists beyond earth, it is not intent upon invading and destroying us.

 

And maybe they have Elvis.

 

The virgin birth could be artificial insemination. How else would primitive people explain it? All they know is you kids from sex. Same thing with the arc. There can not be two of every animal that save an entire species. But what if you had the DNA for a male and female animal? That would all fit on a boat and you could repopulate with that. Supposedly during the 1950's an alien race did tell the American govement they made Jesus but after seeing how he was treated they understood man was not ready.

 

LOL, Back in my school days, our RE teacher asked us all to write an essay about the virgin birth. Some of the essays were hilarious. One I remember, questioned Mary being married to Joseph the carpenter and remaining a virgin was because he had an accident with his chisel. Another suggested that since Joseph seemed uninterested, Mary went out and helped the shepherds watch their flocks by night and her being a virgin was just an assumption. Needless to say, our poor teacher was not amused when he read them and we all had to stay behind in detention and re write our essays.

On a more serious note, who knows what governments know about other life forms. Recently, stories are starting to emerge that during the cold war, both American and Russian nuclear missiles were disabled for no apparent reason. Another interesting report covered how a joint NATO naval combined exercise had to be abandoned due to mysterious malfunction of most of the ships navigation equipment. It was suggested at the time, that the Russians were sabotaging it, but they were aware of the exercise and had no reason to think that it was hostile. They denied any involvement in the sabotage and even admitted at one point that their fleet had suffered similar problems and that they had suspected America.
I think that their is still a lot that we don't know about happening in this world.

 

Cheezus Crackers !

 

Sure. I see what you're saying, but the Romans were the ones that actually crucified HIM. (Matthew 27:27-37). But totally agree with you that the account tells us that the Jewish leaders conspired to kill HIM with the help of Judas.

Peace.