There's no conspiracy. No new world order. No illuminati. Just a lot of stupid voters

I did give examples of two others.

There was also reports of people going to get registered being turned away when they went to register. All the ones that called this "problem" in were not Republican.

 

vote rigging, a dubious allegation at best? I would like you to educate me on the electoral system and why some ppl think that there was vote rigging.

My truth's are self evident, and I do consider some things 'conspiracy' theories...

Ever heard of Daniel Sheehan? You may want to check into it. He speaks clearly, uses facts and history. Not that he necessarily believes in the illuminati or anything..

anyways, I personally agree with blackguard. I think there are different people running different shows. Sometimes these hidden powers clash.

And just curious, I don't know too much about skull and bones, I was hoping since you have debunked it, you could enlighten me --

thanks.

 

Oh I'm sure there was the occasional incident of vote-rigging, as there is in any election. But the notion that George Bush won Ohio due to vote-rigging is definitely a dubious allegation. I try to approach these claims as fairly as possible, without letting my bias judge the evidence. Personally, I'd LIKE for the claims to be true, as it would provide us Democrats with more ammunition against Bush. But I don't think the evidence supports such claims.

I'm not familiar with him, so I won't presume to judge his qualifications or arguments.

Skull and Bones is the Yale secret society that both George Bush and John Kerry (as well as many other American leaders) were a part of during college. Some conspiracy theorists claim that this group is running the world, based on no evidence other than 1) it is a secret society, and 2) it has a lot of leaders as former members.

 

Skull and Bones is a Yale Society, Kandahar.

 

You are right. I edited my previous post to correct it.

 

Exit polls are not SHIT! They are used widely around the world to gauge the possibility of voter fraud (like the Ukraine). NO they aren't perfect, but the regional anomalies in the last election were enough to warrant an investigation, and it isn't a conspiracy to think that, any more than it was in the Ukraine.

 

Exit polls still don't mean anything on the final results, because Kerry had a marginal lead when 5% o the vote had been counted in Ohio doesn't mean anything. In the Ukraine there were obvious signs of vote fruad, video tapes of election officals being beat, mass amount of Yuschenko supporters being turned away, massive media bias to the prime minister, 100% turnouts in some government strongholds, and you know something though, the polls had them at a dead heat before the election, if we're gonna go by exit polls then, then the prime minister there really did win, I mean his support is in the east of the country where the 1st votes came in from giving him an early lead and they had been in a dead heat before the election, so I guess exit polls show nothing wrong for there.

 

That is exactly my point man!!! I ALWAYS tell people that and they don't seem to grasp it. People dismiss 9/11 "Theories" about government involvement or foreknowledge because they don't think politicians would EVER do that to their own people, they don't realize that they would because they don't live like those politicians. If you are in politics and you make billions of dollars from defense contracts, you are going to push for war everytime the possibility comes, and when you can't have war, you MAKE war, and how do you make war? Kill 3,000 plus of your own civilians and tell them it was "Middle Eastern Terrorists", they will let you do whatever the fuck you want in the middle east and let you make a war that could last decades, maybe even more. Remember the months after 9/11, how many times you heard "nuke em all" and bullshit like that, the government carries out these attacks to drill that mindset into the american people, so that they will follow everything they say, because it is for their "freedom". People just seem to dismiss that the government would do these things, and completely look past who has to gain. These people are normal people who live like everybody else, they aren't on top of anyone, they don't have power like these men do....and if they did, they would either, by some miracle, become a good leader, and be shunned by the mainstream media (Nader, Kucinich), or like the majority of politicians, they will become madmen obsessed with power and money, and only striving to get higher and higher in the chain, while you make billions, you begin to look past the dead bodies and the war torn countries, and families, you somehow find ways to justify it in your mind, and tell yourself that it's ok. That is my view on the whole thing, but as an endnote, when you find yourself dismissing a "theory" by someone about government corruption to the highest degrees, stop and think about the many ways in which the government DOES benefit, and think about the fact that because everybody dismisses theories like 9/11 and JFK and RFK, the government would EASILY be able to get away with it. And Lastly, the fact that Adolf Hitler himself, once said that the public will fall easier to a big lie than small one, the reason is because americans feel ok when they condemn their president for getting a blowjob, because it is just a blowjob and it gives them a good laugh and they can think to themselves that this is the lowest my government will ever go, but when something comes up like CIA drug dealing, or government complicity in 9/11, people don't want to believe it because it bothers them and they do not want to even think about it. Just my two cents...

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

if you think there have never been any real conspiracies carried out by politicians than you are a complete moron and obviously do not study history, particularly european history around the time of the berlin wall and the cold war where real conspiracies were carried out and later-admitted by the forces who planned them.

 

No one claimed that there are no real conspiracies, and you know it. While you may accept every conspiracy theory regardless of evidence (or lack thereof), I won't necessarily rule such theories out if the evidence supports the claims. Unlike you, I actually examine the evidence.

Your argument is basically "a few conspiracy theories have been true in the past, so they all must be true, regardless of what the evidence shows." That's a complete non sequitur.

 

When did I say I believed in every conspiracy theory? I don't think they are all true, only the ones I believe are true based on the evidence... how would you know whether or not I examine the evidence? You wouldn't... your jus talkin out your ass again... coming to really illogical assumptions...

 

You cited a conspiracy regarding the Berlin Wall as evidence of the validity of all conspiracy theories. That was the obvious implication you were making, because you'd have no other reason to cite it since no one disputed that conspiracy elsewhere in the thread.

 

No video tapes of election officials being beat, I guess that means our elections were all clean and sparkling, no problems here

Seriously, there have been MANY signs of voter fraud in the US, -link
Of cource, you might consider Democratic Congressmen a bunch of conspiracy theorists if you are a Republican.

Just another example of how we let Republicans control the argument of course, letting them get away with calling us "conspiracy theorists" while the ultimate conspiracy theories (Irag has weapons of Mass Destruction, you can get pregnant through masturbation, the Shark in "The Shark Tale" is gay) are spread by Republicans. I'm not saying you are necessarily republicans, but you are letting them control the argument in any case.

I don't know if you guys like MichaelMoore, but you might enjoy this letter a woman who works with abused women sent him-

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Cheers

 

...But lets not let it ruin our day shall we? For a start, a conspiracy is, by definition,

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.

That's from yourdictionary.com. To think that there are no clandestine groups or "restricted commitees" existing or ever having existed is an exercise of stupidity.

Ooh, and to recognise this society, or matrix of cultures (ahem, there's more than just our western headless mongrel) as open and fair is to be over optimistic at best, and only referring to the body by context. The ruling sector by nature being elitist and self-serving.

And why not, they were democratically elected. On easily hackable or programmable machines. Built by a poker buddy/buggering pal/black magik comrade of those that won the election.

Coincidence/Sincronysity?

 

I thought you claimed that.........my mistake.

You are guilty of that which you criticize, from what I have read. You seem to approach the subject from a predetermined conclusion that conspiracies are bunk.
You are not the only literate member........I too have read the odd book on the subject.

 

Not true. While I admit, I may have a tendency to roll my eyes when I hear someone claiming a new "conspiracy" due to my past experience in evaluating such claims, I won't automatically dismiss such theories if the evidence supports the claim. 99% of the time, the theories have little or no actual evidence behind them, but of course there are exceptions. For example, the Warren Commission obviously overlooked a lot of actual evidence regarding the JFK assassination.

I'm referring mainly to the more wild (and frankly, more stupid) conspiracy theories: Kerry and Bush conspiring to give Bush the election, all of the Jews staying out of the World Trade Center on 9/11, a government coverup of "Area 51," etc.

 

Broom lake, Nevada, is a top secret military facility. I see nothing outlandish about them keeping things hush hush, I would be shocked and stunned if they didnt. Govt coverups are not as rare in my view as you seem to imply.

I would say that maybe half the ones I read have very serious points that are hard to dismiss.
9 11 is one of those events, I am not at all happy with some answers to my questions.
Why not?
cuz they are not believable to me.

 

I'll be the first to agree that government coverups are commonplace. I certainly distrust government. But some of those coverup theories have more credibility than others. An outright lie on the part of government officials regarding WMDs in Iraq seems plausible. A secret cabal controlling the world's governments, or a government coverup of alien spacecraft at "Area 51" does not.

George Bush certainly seems to be hiding something about 9/11, but that doesn't mean that he knew about it in advance or anything like that. More likely, he just doesn't want more news to come out about his incompetence in handling the pre-9/11 intelligence and post-9/11 response.

 

The net is full of conspiracy and theories.

http://www.globalmission.co.uk/

 

Here is an interesting 3 hour bbc documentary- The Power Of Nightmares
It doesn't take up to much memory to watch. (warning, somewhat violent although it is to fuzzy to really see it)

I feel like whoever made the series are playing with our fears the same way they say the neocons do, but it is still a very educational and interesting documentary. They make an interesting argument that the neocons are idealists and want what is best for the world, but will use any means they see fit to reach their goals.

Please debate it if you watch it. Where do you think it is stretching the truth, or is it right on the money?