The Wages Of Sin Is Death

I kind of agree, although it seems to depend on the job someone has. Nobody likes every work day. Glad I have generally only one in a week

 

That is a strange quote for your answer, skip. As thedope is one of the guys who if anything is trying to take away the fear. He doesn't even seem to believe in sin (correct me if I'm mistaken! )

If I may nuance it a little:

Some churches/christians and sometimes yes. It is worth to point out this far from always the case.

Not just or by default christian I think. And I thought the chance of profit was just as much an important motivation for the US meddling in those countries.

 

I think there is something inherently sound in being here. That is given the probability of us being alive to this position is quite astounding. There is a lot of disagreement about what we should be doing here and I think that arises from fundamental misunderstanding of what our being is, that is it's proportions or functions. We feel trapped by a system that is entirely there by virtue of our agreement with it. We perceive the virtues of our own measures. However we are not taught the value of anything but instructed to evaluate by virtue of abstract indistinct sliding scales which gives the experience of guilty conscience and conversely the otherwise impoverished sense of temporary accomplishment. Why should our science of life be guided by moralistic confusion? There is no physical reason the joy of being alive cannot be experienced in a healthy state and a mind with anxiety or conflicts of con-science can not appreciate his own state of being.

We find our selves slaves ultimately by virtue of neglecting the personal responsibility of accounting for our own reactions to stimulus or recognizing the effects of our own thinking. A slave is a victim of a victimized mentality. If you understand phenomena in absence of judgmental qualifications them then phenomena become something that you manipulate rather than you being perpetually reactive to the chaotic appearance of phenomena. To claim yourself a victim or speak for the victimization or guilt of others is to throw away our personal power to affect and share experience as though we never had it. We gain unfettered access to life when we recognize that it belongs to us in it's entirety. There is no part of it that we should or could deny responsibility for. Meaning being willing to account for ourselves entirely and to keep no secrets.

The question could be asked what of those who are in prison and I can't answer that unless someone puts me there. Could it happen that I be overwhelmed by force or numbers, of course i could, however there is no law against goodness and if I would were in prison I would call upon myself for liberation and the liberation of those around me.

I agree with you about the brutality of our current "financial" devotion. I also think our devotion to and attraction to the idea of guilt is a death cult which makes the sacrifice of our youth seem like a worthy endeavor as we go to war against villains and monsters and put juveniles to trial as adults.

 

Excuse me. You may take your own breaks. Sin on my terms is an error in perception meaning to miss the sign or correct distinction. By virtue of mis-identification we fall into holes etc.. I speak out against the idea that sin is a violation of any kind but it's meaning is to be taken as making a mistake. A mistake is not corrected by punishment but by correct identification. We react disproportionately to perceived violations in decorum as threats to decent existence. I desire mercy not sacrifice. Do you have a problem with me? Could we construe this as a personal attack? I'm sure your irritation is a matter of personal indigestion quite apart from you speaking for anyone that qualifies as us.

 

My point was if your ability to correctly identify is neglected then your sense of security or good proportions diminishes or dies for lack of nourishment in real substance. From the position of this sense of lack of good proportion all kinds of dreadful reactions occur. I hope that is not a fearful thought but rather food for it.

 

Does that mean if I choose to identify myself as christian it is my problem? Your perception of them, whoever they might be is a measure of your making. Obviously you do not speak for them as they do not speak for themselves in a manner so self depreciating, so you have some confusion as to the effects of your own thinking. Am I not being helpful and in what way? What you experience is a lack of patience with your premature conclusions and previous convictions. You quoted my statement. I stand by my statements and it is a statement of personal conviction practice and demonstration.

Get to the point quicker? As I said you can take your own breaks.

 

If you wonder why I am often bothering to nuance these kind of statements... I see people say it so many times it looks like a doctrine on itself (I am really not saying this to sound like a smart ass making a witty comparison). It is true people (ab)use all kinds of ideologies and organisations to profit from other people. This does not mean such ideologies or an organisation like a religion solely exist for that purpose or came primarily into being for that. When people insist to always portray the ideology they dislike so much (in this case a religion) as one faceted, when in fact there are many facets of christianity, what they say becomes distorted from the truth.

Religions and religious beliefs do not solely exist out of the fear of death and the unknown, religion also exists out of the curiosity of the unknown (and death) and both spiritual and philosophical ponderings. To not acknowledge such things or simply ignore them consequently makes this remark looks too subjective and it is easily abused as a tool to monger fear on itself (against a group of people). It is not that I don't acknowledge the fear mongering part and hey, I hate that too. As I hate just as much that people in distress get food and shelter under the disguise of evangelisation (but it can be said many people and organisations with different kinds of ideologies are doing this, not just religious like christian or islamic but also certain capitalistic countries in their urge to get foot in possible new markets etc.). I just don't think it is an excuse to consistently generalize a religion to the point it is nothing more than an incomplete stereotype.

You are saying that without religion there is no war, hate and fear. Surely you know better than that? At best that's just an hypothesis. I do agree that with education there will be less hate and fear and so most likely also less war

 

How off topic if the wages of sin are perpetual detriment? What things do you think?

No, they are engendered by the search for liberation from suffering in the present.

What if the religious never feared the unknown but sought to make sense of the known?

Who is they?

Who is they? What words?

It is not uncommon for the suicidal to conceive there is relief in death. You give religions a status of person hood just as the supreme court rules that corporations are persons and is a kind of legalese that discounts the contributions or liabilities of individuals.

First off I don't agree with your confusion of species. Who exactly is a sheep and what are the others and who are you in this scenario? I never imply any one died because of guilt, I definitely stated that we kill people by virtue of it.

Death is a biological event, speaking of ignorance.

Your solution is to ban books. That is rather funny. I think you would be happier understanding what you read...

 

Sin and guilt as they are construed generally are synonymous concepts. The belief that a crime is worthy of punishment is the self same in practice as the fundamentalist understanding of the statement the wages of sin is death. Conversely it is identical to the idea that human sacrifice is necessary for the preservation of decent life. This are the distortions of frightened and angry children. Of these the fact is that the blind can only lead the blind and those who see follow their own lead and can identify what is needed or minister to those in need.

 

I ment of course 'people are getting evangelized under the disguise of getting food and shelter'

I hate the fearmongering more btw (fearmongering and polarizing from any 'side'. For me there are no sides here)

 

if christianity would stop invading everyone else's territory, none of the rest of us, would be forced to invade it's. even christianity's own bible, asks to remember who's ox is being gored.

 

What odd things have been posted here, especially regarding the title and the OP. That being said, from what I have understood, the Christian forum is for people to post about things such as this...one's thoughts, opinions, etc. However, the quoting of scripture is not done here.

The Sanctuary section is for when you want to quote scripture. I've posted both places, especially since there are times quoting (several) scriptures is quite helpful for "making one's point"...so to say. I must say it is news to me that "Christianity" is "invading everyone else's territory". lol But it is my feeling whomever should feel free to post here.

Perhaps I'll just add now that I'm reserving a time that I'll come back and address some of the subjects and views that I've read, and been sort of surprised by.

Even though I'm a devout believer, I do NOT believe in a vengeful God, not now...not after the New Testament and Jesus's entry...but (all) that is for another time.

 

when a new post gets posted to the top of the religion section, i seldom look first to see what sub forum it is posted in.

perhaps this one, should somehow be prevented from unintentionally doing so.

it is not my wish, to invade anyone else's sanctuary. but rather that every belief should have its own, that NO other belief invades.

and yes, that includes the athiest section too. and ALL the rest of them.

 

Now Mr. Manx, ...I don't think you said anything you shouldn't say, or have said, or whatever, not that what I think matters more than (less than) .02.

I still think that in this particular sub-forum you are cool to express yourself. The only reason I know of that the Sanctuary was sort of "set aside" was so that people could get into more depth discussing specific scripture :book: that others didn't want to get into in the larger subforum.

I also agree that beliefs shouldn't "invade" others...however, I believe that any Christian, Buddist or whatever one considers oneself, they should wear big enough panties to be able to handle someone differing in opinion from them. Sometimes in discussions/debates different views are seen and even formed.

 

yes, different perceptions are good. but christianity seems to think, what's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine too.

when christianity allows others to do, as it is asking others to allow it, THEN i will respect that.

WHEN christianity, keeps its nose and its ass, OUT of every other forum, about anything else what so ever, THEN i will gladly accept this, and keep my nose and my ass, out of its.

i'm sorry but i find it thoroughly disgusting, that christianity seems to think it owns everything about god, or any other belief, or everything to do with anything in the entire universe.

if christianity really wants a sanctuary, from every other belief, it really owes it to itself, as much as everyone else, to allow every other belief and non belief, the same privilege of such a 'sanctuary', from itself.

 

For fear of saying things that will get me banned, I will simply say that one that seeks forgiveness is granted it. There is no clear cut way of arriving to "seeking" it. We all have our own rock bottoms, and we all have breaking points. I hear they can be be better then college educations.

 

What's the difference between cringing fearfully in a cave hiding from a lightening storm the inhabitants of said cave were terrified of , one hundred thousand years ago and cringing with fear while other humans that know
nothing more about the whys and wherefores of existence than anyone else, scare people with ancient "probabilities" in this day and age?

Obviously creation required a creator of some kind. With the human condition as presently observed, are we betting on the writings of ancient, ignorant humans to guide us in our modern life? ( I didn't say stupid--I said ignorant).

I always like to ask what the condition of man made religion was, say--3 million years ago. Probably not much happening. Not many churches around, I would guess. Or true believers either. Hang in though--that came later when the power trips began.