the Usda wants the taxpayer to buy them GUNS

25

So you have nothing tangible – just a sense of grievance and a belief in some utopian fantasy. Other than that it seems you’re empty, devoid of insight or judgement.

It’s very sad.

*

Basically all you have is lies and slander

Slander – anyone that doesn’t think just like you must approve of all the bad things that happen in the world.

Been incapable of defending your ideas all you have is the silly throwing of mud at anyone that criticises them.

Lies – you claim you have answered the criticisms levelled at your ideas when you know you haven’t.

I mean I’ve called you out – LIAR – and I’ve said prove me wrong – wouldn’t someone that wasn’t a liar want to clear their name but no you don’t because you can’t.

 

25

I think your problem is that your ideas are not a political philosophy they are a religious belief.

Just like a Creationist you cannot realistically defend your ideas in any rational way but that doesn’t matter because you have faith and so ‘know’ you are right and so any other view must be wrong.

Time and again your reply to you critics is along that line – I’m right you are wrong

And like many religions throughout history this one has been manipulated to serve the interests of a particular group, in this case wealth.

The faithful minions like you are just the cannon fodder their eyes so fixed on the ‘promised land’ of milk and honey that they can’t see the trap they are walking into.

 

bullshit. you just ignore anything I say, because you're stuck in the Lie, that Government is some great protector, and no one but government, can take care of society. That's the biggest logical fallacy imo.


and btw, I notice you NEVER quote my main points. There's a reason half of that message was in bold, and you clearly intentionally cut all of that, so, you can attempt to discredit me, yet again.


I'm sitting here, pointing out what every Government does; every Government, is based on force, and you Liberals accept it and, in your case,, endorse it- then, you turn around, and, say you don't. You want to have your cake, and, eat it too. When the staggering truth behind the mask, is the exact contrast.


Liberals generally, support disarmament, more taxes and, more Government Programs. For someone who pretends to hate the politics of the past 30 years, and blame that on my views, you certainly support an endorse the very same policies of expanding Government,
allowing corporations to write their own regulations, to stump competition, and, you give certain moral authority to some individuals, to dictate the behavior of the rest. THIS has been the problem the past 40 years, not what some Big-Government Republican like Re[FONT=Verdana]ag[/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]an c[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]alled the "freem[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]arket," but, it's not truly [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]a free [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]m[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]arket, if the corpor[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ations [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]are embezzling money from the t[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]axp[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ayer, [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]and, the government is funneling it to them. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]and, it's no different under Ob[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]am[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]a or [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]any Liber[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]al. More Government me[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ans more corruption, violence, [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]and imposition on one's person[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]al life.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


Meanwhile, in the Liberal fantasy world,Government and, Government bodyguards can have guns, but, not citizens. Which already sounds terrible.

moreover, I believe the reality of what we're in, is much more grim than you Liberals believe. You're ignoring the reality of government, so you have an excuse to steal from certain individuals, to add to the huge bureaucratic slush fund, that is Government.

who are regular people like you or me, but, with much much more money and power, and control over what I can eat/drink/smoke?...
Hell no. Only I control that, and, that should be a Right, if we still must deal with government. But, I truly don't think we need them.

Besides, Many/most politicians do/have done drugs, but they're not searched when they get pulled over, or, harassed by police.

i've defended my views, it's you Liberals who have no defense for the violence you impose. you will find that soon, the Humanitarian excuse wont appease the people, when, the Federal Government turns around, and drone strikes innocent children,or kills a child in a drug raid etc.


We're not going to deal with a Corporate-Government, who imposes on our freedom or, our way of life. Right now, in america, cops are tricking young kids, to give up their constitutional rights, so that they can search their car, and, throw them in jail, over a plant. cops brutalize protesters, they made protesting, and even dancing illegal (This is what happens when you allow an olig[FONT=Verdana]arch of people, control yours, [/FONT][I][B]and everyone elses life.)[/B][/I]
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Individu[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]als should be in ch[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]arge of their own lives- [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]Idc if you w[FONT=Verdana]ant to help people[/FONT], st[FONT=Verdana]art [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]a business or, do drugs. those [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]are your choices. But, don't m[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ake the t[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]axp[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ayer p[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ay for other peoples mist[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]akes. I shouldn't h[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ave to p[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ay for te[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]achers, to get pl[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]astic surgery [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]and boob jobs ([/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]which we p[FONT=Verdana]ay for tod[/FONT][FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]ay.)

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[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][quote="Balbus"] [/quote]

There's never been a system to compare it to. So, how would you expect "proof?"

anyway, I know how you argue, Ill put up articles, and you disregard my sources, as another way of attempting to discredit me. Let me guess, you only watch media sponsored by the Brittish Government, Right? I've seen you cite BBC, so don't say no...


I also believe people were too uncivilized 100 years ago, to have this system, and, that's why I told you, todays morality can't even be compared to the days, when they hung Guys Mistress's as "witches" because, they didn't want their secret getting out.


Since 1993, violent crimes in america has dropped rapidly.




People are more civilized than those days. We understand imposing violence on others is wrong; That is why the crime rate is down. Liberals talk about how cops have a crazy dangerous job, when in all honesty, it is one of the safest jobs in the Country. according to the FBI, only 41 officers have been murdered in the line of duty, countrywide.


Yet, police are carrying machine guns, riot shields, helmets etc. Not only that, but they got the True Blue Gang behind them, with Mine resistant war vehicles. They've pepper-sprayed protestors who were doing nothing but sitting on the sidewalk.

It's not just an occasional government problem, as Liberals claim, but Government, and the inherent idea that one group of people can maintain control over citizens, is wrong, and it's basically stating that me, you and eggs, are nothing more than Government property. Therefore, it's okay for them to steal from us. This is the new wave of slavery, and it's not on the very poor, who collect from the theft of everyone. again, it's not the worse thing. But, the reason why $8 an hour is not a livable wage, is because the inflation (printing)


This is to you and eggs both; When you say we need government, you are literally saying we need a system of force. Liberalism tries to mask it, with the Humanitarian side of it, when it's obvious that everyone would live better, if we had the trillions of dollars, instead of the government.


Today, kids in america are born into a 20K debt,to a government has done virtually nothing for them. There's only one way to justify this; basically, you're making the case, that the Government somehow owns my body or work ethic. is that what you're arguing? Because, i have heard Liberals defend that perspective.

Either way, I believe that Liberalism is a tool for the elite, because its considered the "lesser evil," in the eyes of people who believe there is such a thing. Liberalism mixed with communism, is what the corporations and Liberalism supports. the wealthy however, just want to pay foodstamps, as means of shutting us up, and making us think our tax money isn't being wasted. In other words,that is their way of gathering consent from Liberals. Consent is Consent. You endorse and advertise for Government, including the US government, who you're constantly defending for targeting citizens.


The thing is, anyone who's done just a little bit of research on this topic,would know the Government is entirely corrupted, and there is no fixing it. Wait until kids are born into a 50k or 100k debt, see if they will think government is for the "betterment of society" then.


It seems to be alot easier for you to make criticisms than answer mine. I've been saying the same thing since page 3. I've stated my ideas perfectly logically and sensibly; So, if you're having difficulty understanding, that's a personal problem. But, I would expect that, from someone who thinks so highly of Government. and that's my point about Liberals; They will never say they endorse force, but Government is force alone.


You, and eggs are mistaken society, for government...

This is how I feel about that...


“Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins ... Society is in every state a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

Society is produced by our wants, and government by wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.”-Thomas Paine-

 

25

This is like a man looking at a calm sea and declaring the sea will always be calm while ignoring the distant storm clouds.

As I’ve pointed out things can change if situations change and as has been explained at length and in detail you ideas would most likely make things a lot worse.

*

A lot of ideas have been put forward for the drop in crime in the developed world.

Some claim that the removal of lead from petrol and other products has had an effect because it was known that lead poisoning caused violent behaviour.

Others point to the increased role for woman in developed counties, which has a calming effect.

Some feel it is down to developed countries having an older population and most crimes are committed by young men.

Others point to more sophisticated policing methods and tools (better cheaper forensics, DNA, computer analysis etc)

Also security measures have improved, cctv, car immobilisers, tracking devises, better defences in banks (bulletproof glass security screens etc) and marked money.

And in the developed countries we carry cash a lot less than we used to, people used to be paid in cash now it goes electronically into the bank and we pay a lot more with debit cards.

Also welfare system in many countries mean people are not put in the position of weighing up the risk of being caught or not eating.

I could go on and on but I think that gives an idea.

 

25

What are you talking about? You claim you have address the outstanding criticisms in some rational and reasonable way – I ask for some proof of that and you go off at a tangent about some ‘system’.

If you can’t produce the evidence of these supposed rational replies then the charge that you are a liar stands.

Your main criticism of me and others who disagree with you is that because we don’t agree with you then we must consent to / approve of / want / like every evil you see in the world from teachers get boob jobs to the murder of children.

It’s a silly argument.

TO REPEAT – the criticisms are not of the problems but of your solutions to them which we feel would likely make a bad situations worse and give the dominance of society to wealth.

CAN YOU PLEASE ADDRESS THOSE CRITICISMS

You have presented some ideas we have given our criticism of them which seem to point out that they are deeply flawed, irrational and seem likely to make bad situations worse – you seem unable or unwilling to address those criticisms.

 

"Today, kids in america are born into a 20K debt,to a government has done virtually nothing for them. There's only one way to justify this; basically, you're making the case, that the Government somehow owns everyone's body or work ethic; is that what you're arguing?"

 

25

Whose the quote from?

*

AS I’VE POINTED OUT BEFORE –

After WWII the US’s national debt was up to around 117% of GDP it was brought down in just 36 years less than one generation (by 1981 it was down to 32.5%) until successive right wing and neo-liberal policies (tax cuts and anti-communist military spending) from the 1980 onward increased it cumulating in the profligate spending and tax cuts of the Bush Admin. At the same time the free market ideology (deregulation, hollowing out of manufacturing and a belief that the ‘new’ markets were safe) set up the financial sector for a fall and has caused the debt to rise to around 80-90% of GDP.

The problem isn’t ‘government’ the problem is a right wing, wealth supported, neo-liberal, free market ideology that hijacked the system.

Try - The Decline and Fall of the America Empire: Part One 1945-
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=435209&f=36

Fall in top rate tax
1945 - 94%
1970 – 70%
1982 - 50%
1990 - 28%
2010 – 33%


Rise in top levels of pay
In the 1950’s CEO pay was 25-50 times that of an average worker that had risen to 300-500 times by 2007.
A bigger gap than any other developed nation.

Trade deficit
1960 – Trade surplus of 3.5 billion
2008 – Trade deficit of 690 billion
(The last time the US posted a trade surplus was in 1975)

*

As I’ve explained at length and in detail you solutions to the problems (little or no tax, little or no welfare, little or no regulation and a really weak government that could be even easier to be dominated by wealth) would only seemed designed to make a bad situation worse.

Can you address the criticisms and if not why not?

 

From the very same post above, that you didn't answer fully.

as always, you cherry-pick information

they made many changes on how they measured the gdp. as well as, other things, like the interest rate, which are kept artific[FONT=Verdana][I]ally low by Government. this goes contr[/I][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][I][FONT=Verdana][I]ary to true free m[/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][I][FONT=Verdana][I][FONT=Verdana][I]arket principles. [/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT]

Im SO sick of repeating myself. This era of american history, is closer to liberalism, than it is to free market Libertarianism.

for one thing, the "tax cuts" were only geared toward the wealthy, which is not what I advocate, and, I'm against [FONT=Verdana][I]all of the Us[/I][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][I][FONT=Verdana][I]a's unjustified w[/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][I][FONT=Verdana][I][FONT=Verdana][I]ars, including WWII.


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[/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT][/I][/FONT]It's Liberalism which expands Government, and requires MORE taxes and MORE Government, which has caused this downfall of the middle class.

Obama extended the Bush tax cuts, so, to say 'Government isn't bad, Republicans are' is a false statement, which see's the world in a left-Right paradox, that does not truly exist.


My plan is not to only give tax cuts to the wealthy, but, you argue
the wealthy would "get more back"

i have 2 arguments against that- 1, if they put in the same percentage, it may be more money, but it's still only 10-20 percent, and it isn't alot to them, even if it is to us.

number 2, government benefits, like bailouts and writing their own regulations, is much more of a benefit than 'less taxes'

this is just more bogus hysteria.

you're basing your criticisms on nothing but assumptions and mainstream politicians.

when you understand freedom, you support freedom for everyone. liberalism is the total contrast.

 

25

No it is mainly just increases the power and influence of wealth, people at the low end of the scale don’t receive back anything like those at the top. It give disposable wealth to those who least need it and going by history they would only use it to further their own interests.

Let us say that there was a simple 10% tax and it was returned.

So someone earning 1000 gets back 100 dollars not much

10,000 = 1000 still not much

(Average wage in US is around 40,000 = 4000 dollars)

100,000 = 10,000 now that’s better

[“According to the census bureau, 21.8% of FAMILIES made over $100,000 a year” even fewer individuals]

1,000,000 = 100,000 now you’re getting serious money

[People and households earning $1 million or more annually made up just 0.1 percent, or just over 235,000, of the 140 million tax returns filed in 2009]

10,000,000 = 1,000,000 that will buy a lot of influence

[just 8,274 returns were filed by people making $10 million or more – the US has a population of around three hundred million, 0.003% of 300 million is 9000]

100,000,000 = 10,000,000 and that a whole lot more.

To me that’s bad enough but actually there is progressive taxation meaning the wealthy pay more and so would get vastly more back if taxes were reduced.

You think WWII was unjustified? What do you think should have been the response to Japans attack on Pearl Harbor?

 

25

OK you seem to have three counter arguments

One - historical tax cuts which always ended up leaving wealthy more dominant wouldn’t happen with your proposed tax cuts because – well because that’s what you are telling us.

Two – when you perfect ‘free market’ is introduced it will work perfectly because - that is what you are telling us, even though there never has been a free market and for reasons explained (that you don’t address) it is very unlikely there could be one.

Three – if we understood ‘freedom’ like you understood ‘freedom’ then we would understand, although you seem unable to explain why or defend you ‘freedom’ from criticism.

As you can see none of these arguments actually address any of the many outstanding criticisms of your ideas in any rational or reasonable way.