You wont reply to this topic even if its a new topic. You wanted to have it both ways and now you can decide how to do it. Its easy for me to give you an example of which parts of the Koran are fraudulent and which are in error because the entire book is an example of pseudoscriptura.. a man trying to make a 'version' of the Bible (as he misunderstands it). If you insist on believeing the Koran then you must insist on believeing that Gods revelation CANNOT be corrupted. Oh shit. Muhammad really screwed up on that one!
Erasmus70 Thanks, don't give me anything, and if you want to do it, post a new thread, best wishes =) Did God tell you that? What do you want from me? Why keeping doing this and following me? Do you want me to be a Christian? Or to apostatize? And if so, why is that? YoursSincerely, CatStevens
Erasmus.....stop it. You dont understand what you are doing here. You are taking somebody's faith and throwing it in the trash. Did not your messiah say "Do not unto others what you would not have done to yourself"? Christianity, at least true christianity, christianity of the catacombs, is not a faith of exclusion and conservative intolerance. It is a religion of acceptance and love. You show neither. Now if this is a racist thing and you just hate muslim people because you fear them for whatever reason, fine, there is little hypocracy there, just a shitload of Ignorance. But your hatred of Islam takes roots in a loving mans religion, and that is true hypocracy. I am neither Christian nor Muslim, but I respect Isa/Jesus greatly. There is a Phil Ochs song which examplifies why...it is called "Balad of the Carpenter". I absolutly hate Christian Right ignorant hatred, it is a slap in the face to Jesus, who by any standards was something of a leftist who HATED exclusion, be it religious, linguistic, or racial. Before you attack Islam based on your Christian bias's, consider this. WWJD?
You are trying to turn this into a 'personal dislike' issue pitting me against Muslims themselves. Wrong. I only hope that more and more Muslims get out from under that legalist religion of punishment and death. Jesus already has done something (and its far superior to anything I can dream of doing). He already reconciled them with Himself and there is no more need for law and punishments. Jesus. Not 'Isa'. Isa is another character in Muhammeds version of a Bible. But look.. you can stand around all day Ewok, trying to tell me how you accept everyone and all this. But You are more than happy when CatStevens announces the Christian Book as Corrupted, Jesus as a Man. As for my 'personal dislike' for Muhammad, its nothing to do with wanting to hate anyone at anytime or 'because he just happens to have a different faith'. No. I dont like serial-killers, torturers, pedophiles and those who loot and rape and murder. Thats how I roll. In 'Theory' this does not necessarily mean his revelation is corrupt but I am not interested in taking the word of a Criminal just because 'Muhammed says so because he says so, therefore its true, because Muhammed said so".
You are a racist. It is as simple as that. And how dare you say "Jesus...and NOT Isa"?? Do you really believe that there was a man who went by the name "Jesus"? Surely you know that the name Jesus is a latinization of the Hebrew name "Yehosua". You have personally offended some Muslim friends of mine through your ignorance. That is why I am personalizing it. You dont understand that those stupid bigoted things you say have nasty reprocussions. You wont convert anybody. You will just piss people off, and I am sure you ave no trouble pissing off those Muslims "you deal with everyday". I feel sorry for you, and all other people who blindly accept Chirstian Coalition propaganda because they are too stupid to realize that Islam and every other major religion is based on the same principles that Christianity (before it was corrupted by conservative's like yourself) was origionally based on: Do not do unto others that which is harmful to yourself. It doesnt surprise me to learn that Islam is not the only thing you ignorantly hate. After viewing some of your other posts, I am rather unsurprised to find that you are a homophobe as well.
Well I have no idea where you think Racism is involved but since you are a University student I suspect that is your trained 'autoresponse' to anything. Unless its ripping into Christianity. Thats the ONLY thing you not only CAN rip into and condemn and in fact you 'should' according to your brainwashers lol! Heya.. how come you are not 'outraged' that Muslims 'personaly insult' Christian friends of yours when they deny his Diety. Oh. Isa and Jesus are two different things. You can put aside which one or if any are the accurate accounts (the ones with many witnesses or the one 500 years later which only Muhammed knows about) But One thing is for sure, 'Isa' is a different 'Jesus' than the one I would be talking about. The Koran is not an 'Abrahamic Faith', its not an 'offshoot' of Judeo-Christianity. Its not the 'Real Jews'. Its a story from Muhammed that (in his mind) is supposed to be an 'even better version' of the Bible. He was obviously baffled and confused and jealous about that Book. So he made a version he could understand. (Things like the Trinity or Grace or why there are two Covenants grrrrrrr... Muhammed could NOT figure it out and deemed it 'Stupid') Thats my theory and Im sticking to it. Its ok. Your allowed to have different opinions. CatStevens thinks Jesus was a mere man and that his revelation was corrupted. Making 'Isa' the worst prophet ever I guess?
As I have said before, I respect, and indeed admire Jesus, and true early Christianity. The reason I am so hostile to Christianity today is because it is the faith of imperialists. Christianity was good untill the Roman Imperialists got a hold of it, and tainted it with their greed and ambition. That taint was again and again examplified by the Holy Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Russian Empire, the Spanish Empire, and the British Empire, who all practised imperialism in the Christian God's name. And now we have the American Empire, with its slogan "In God We Trust"....trust what...that he will allow them to keep killing and maiming in the name of profit? You may try to compare this to the expansion of Islam, but the difference here is that when Islam expanded, it tended to expand into evil empires like Persia and Byzantium, whose rulers horribly oppressed their own people. There was some expansion into indeginous peoples areas, yes, and I wholly oppose that, but the Muslims did not oppress the people of the newly acquired territories, and allowed them to continue practising their own religion. Compare that to the Spanish conquest of the far older (and in my opinion, far more cultured) civilization of the Mayans...can somebody spell Genocide? Muhammed was NOT stupid, and he was NOT baffled by the concept of the trinity. It is a simple concept, and you are putting your religion on an arrogant little platform by saying it can not be understood by an Arab trader. He just had his own idea of God as being immensly great and indivisible. Its an apt idea, its not my idea of God (I am a pantheist, so I more or less believe God is everywhere and everything....thats the very abridged version) but I respect the Quran, especially for one reason. It can not be translated and still be called "holy". If you have read the koran, you have undoubtedly read the english translation, which are sloppy at best. that is because you have not read the koran, but rather a guide to it. only in Arabic, as it was originally written is it authentic. Now, Muhammed was not stupid, but he was illiterate (which at his time was extremely commonplace, and not a sign of stupidity), and to read the quran in arabic, one would think that not even the best poet the arab world has to offer could match that. I am not a Muslim, but I think that Muhammed was in contact with God, and he was relating some truth of God in the Quran. I think the same of Jesus. And of Krishna, and especially the Buddha. What is terrible is when people look at their respective religions, and use them to justify violence, or oppression. Erasmus, you say a shitload of ignorant and offensive things. They offend me, and I am not even a Muslim. I suggest you find a forum site that is more alligned with your little right wing, christian coalition, Rob Patterson beliefs.
EwokUtopia Oh, Quraan in Arabic is really indescribable. Thank you Allah because I can read and speak Arabic, thank you an infinite thanks. Hamza Yusuf is an American he studied Arabic, he is really fluent in Arabic now, yeah, now he can understand how Quraan is is indescribable. Thanks to Allah he converted to Islam, Hamza Yusuf Mark HansonHamza Yusuf started life as Mark Hanson in Walla Walla, Washington, USA. The son of two US academics of a Catholic and Greek Orthodox background, he seemed destined not for Islamic scholarship, but for Greek Orthodox priesthood until a near-death experience in a car accident, and reading the Quran, diverted his attentions towards Islam.It was this sudden confrontation with his own mortality that Yusuf has described as being the defining moment that gave " someone who was introspective, perspective." Although, numerous factors interplay in any individual's conversion, it was this vista in particular, that opened up a path of enquiry and reflection that ultimately led to his conversion to Islam in 1977, a few months before his 18th birthday. His brush with death had sparked an intrigue into the afterlife, causing him to study various traditions' views on death. Islam, he found, offered the most detailed account of all. Furthermore, he found that many of his own values only served to harmonise with Islamic belief. His father, a Humanities Professor and his mother a Berkeley graduate, were fairly active in the civil rights movements enabling a strong awareness of social struggle and justice in the young Mark. "As a westerner, the child of civil rights and anti-war activists, I embraced Islam not in abandonment of my core values, drawn almost entirely from the progressive tradition, but as an affirmation of them."Simultaneously, the arguments put forward in the Quran drew parallels with many of his own musings. From a young age, he was very much aware of being a product of his environment. The Quran prompted reflection on his perception of life, reality, and religion. Just as his parents were Christian, he had been raised as one, yet the Quran offers many parables of those following the religion of their forefathers without question. The Quran prompted him to look beyond what many take for granted. After his conversion he left for England where he embarked on private study which was to instill a desire to learn the tradition from its source. It was during this time, in which he was beginning to learn Arabic, that he met Sheikh Abdullah Ali Mahmood of Sharjah who was in England at the time. This meeting was to prove pivotal in Yusuf's life providing him the opportunity to further his studies in the United Arab Emirates. Yusuf spent some four years in the UAE, where he became a Muadhin (caller to Prayer) and Imam at a local mosque. It was also during this time that he met various West African scholars who kindled an interest in studying traditional Islam as is still being taught in West Africa today. These scholars did much in the way of his personal tuition before his aspirations of studying in West Africa were finally realised. His journey of reflection, prompted by a fateful car accident, took him to many parts of the Middle East over a ten-year period where he received numerous teaching licenses, or ijazas, from the some of the greatest remaining scholars of traditional Islam. Having travelled to the UAE, Madinah, Algeria, Morocco, and West Africa he eventually returned to the US where he took degrees in nursing and religious studies from Imperial Valley College and San Jose State University, respectively. He has since travelled to numerous countries around the world giving talks on various topics on Islam, with his video and audio recordings selling by the thousands. His ability to move many to tears, both of laughter and humility, have ensured his popularity with many, but only someone who speaks from the heart will have any lasting impact upon it-and it is in this aspect that he has left his greatest impression. His talks have inspired confidence in many young Muslims disillusioned with the West and further disillusioned by other Muslims insisting on a suffocating interpretation of Islam. He advocates a refreshing tolerance that counteracts the cancerous intolerance crippling the Muslim community, and promotes a sincerity and purification of the heart that will necessarily permeate and purify societies. For those who have attended the short courses, organised by traditional learning institutes in the West, in which he is one of many teachers, it is to bear witness to this possibility. In meeting the teachers of sacred knowledge who have come from all walks of life to teach students living in the West, is to witness the greatness of Islam itself in its inherent ability to dignify and elevate all who embody its teachings regardless of race, rank or background. For Islam truly is an invitation to all mankind. For more information on the Zaytuna Institute founded by Hamza Yusuf and Dr Hesham Alalusi click here. Source I really love to hear from him, he is such a super speaker. May Allah bless him, Amen. YoursSincerely,CatStevens
Wherever one finds peace of soul, I respect it, so long as their peace of soul doesnt rely on destroying other peoples peace of soul. If only the Christian Right would diminish and the Christian Left would take its place.
Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim! Yours Sincerely, Cat Stevens
It is all yours, my friend. Thank you, your kind words are, themselves, a blessing. You are quite welcome. And thank you. First of all, let me say I wholeheartedly believe you are doing good works by simply being a good human. If everyone simply tried to do what you do, I am sure this world would be transformed, for the better, beyond anyone's vision. If I could offer one bit of creative criticism, however, I would humbly suggest that you use a different organizational ideal to signify your vision. In other words, please consider calling it something other than an army, a war, or even communiqués and statements by the army commander. I understand the metaphor of a well-tuned organization, singly devoted to the accomplishment of its cause. But, by definition, an army exists to threaten and administer deadly, destructive force to those who are not harmonious (for reasons that are usually ignored in dangerously critical situations), to its cause. An army usually shoots first and then, later, celebrates its victory over the unasked, unanswered question. I believe there is a better way, so I cannot take any part in any army. Of course, on the other hand, if you want to create a Renaissance . . . Wise words, from good human beings. Peace and Love
As bad as Bush is, I fear greatly for the guy who will succeed him. The only thing worse than an evil republican idiot is an evil republican genious.
Varuna Awwww, that's so so SO sweet! I don't know what to say, thanks friend, thank you very much Myself I hate to hear words such as war, army, etc, yeah it was a metaphor, we were talking about the US, sigh, Thumps up =) Peace and sincere love EwokUtopia Yours Sincerely, Cat Stevens Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
I am a firm believer in peace, but if Mecca was attacked I don't know what I would do. Most likely I would pray to Allah for guidance, and pray for those who performed sucha terrible thing, I would join Jihad myself, but never in violents. I mean peaceful Jihad (for those who don't know Jihad does not mean oly war it means struggle for Islam, and it does not have to involve violents).