The Swan

Discussion in 'Women's Issues' started by feministhippy, May 22, 2004.

  1. feministhippy

    feministhippy Member

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    I know I've heard a lot of people complain about how sexist that show is, but I'm really not sure what to think about it. I have beliefs for and against that show. I'll start with the cons:

    Cons:
    * I'll admit that the plastic surgery thing kind of gets to me.
    * The beauty contest thing. I'm morally opposed to the idea of saying "This person is more beautiful than that person." I'd feel the same way if they were all men.

    Pros:
    * It shows that normal woman can be attractive. That's important because these days, you can't say that about to many shows..
    * Those woman really seem happy with the results.

    Also:
    *It's just a TV show. I highly doubt that anyone puts it on and says "Well, I think less of woman now that I saw that." It's a silly reality show.
    *These woman chose to be on that show. It's not like anyone held a gun to their head and said: "Go one the Swan or die" or anything.

    I'm curious as to how you all feel about it.
     
  2. cynical_otter

    cynical_otter Bleh!

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    I like these shows.

    I know what it's like to feel less then pretty.

    and you can say all the "beauty is on the inside" crap you want but the reality is....women want to feel pretty on the outside as well.


    these women made life choices.I dont care if another woman has plastic surgery...it's her own body...she wants to look like that creepy lion lady? fine.


    I thinks it's rather impressive that our medical technology can make someone with a severe overbite,one boob,hanging skin,and sunken eyes look like a pageant winning beauty.




    Likewise, I know what it's like to feel less then pretty but I dont know what it's like to be someone with such severe malformations that only plastic surgery could correct them.

    I've never had a hairlip....I wouldnt want one..and I can only imagine the pain of a woman with one.to never be able to properly kiss a man(or woman), to constantly have to wipe away drool because of the gap that exposes your mouth open.

    if surgery can fix that...all the more power to it.
     
  3. Oklahoma

    Oklahoma Member

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    I hate reality shows. I used to watch them, but I just don't understand anymore what's supposed to be so entertaining about watching a bunch of people get in fights and have their lives screwed up.
     
  4. cynical_otter

    cynical_otter Bleh!

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    it's entertaining because these people are actually dumb enough and desperate enough for attention that they would allow themselves to be subjected to such humiliation.
     
  5. Cosmic Butterfly

    Cosmic Butterfly Member

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    I watched if for the first time. These women have so much low self esteem, and other emotional problems that I think the surgery is doing more damage then harm. It may make them feel good for a bit, but they still havent learned how to truly love themselves, and see their real beauty.

    Im kind of more nuetral for corrective surgery ie severe overbite, hairlip, etc. But fake tits and collagen lips is just going to far for me.

    And to be honest, I thought they were even more physically unattractive after the surgeries. I could see that they were not at all natural.
     
  6. dotadave

    dotadave Member

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    Frankly I like the pictures from before they got they're faces carved up better than they're new look. The new looks look completly different than before, so much so that they aren't recognizeable at all. The surgries all for some reason look just plain off, like they're wearing rubber masks. It's kind of creepy.
     
  7. nightmarehippygirl

    nightmarehippygirl LEVI'S MOMMY

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    the show is creepy, but if i ever accidentally flip the channel to it, i have to finish watching...

    it's sad, i think that women feel like they must look like miss america to be accepted.

    on the other hand, there are certain cosmestic procedures that i would consider for myself, so i guess my opinion on it is that it's ok to tweak your own features a little, but if you get home and your kids don't know who you are, that's too much.
     
  8. Sunburst

    Sunburst Fairy

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    Cons:


    ~Competition for outer beauty is horrible
    ~It's shallow and stupid
    ~Going through intense pain just to look "pretty" in others' eyes is sad.

    Pros:

    ~It does mental transformations too. The emotionally damaged girls in this show receive therapy to heal or begin to heal emotional scars.
    ~The girls have a self-esteem boost. As horrible as it is, it does make them realize that they're beautiful.
     
  9. alissamelon

    alissamelon Member

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    very nicely said!
     
  10. Maggie Sugar

    Maggie Sugar Senior Member

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    Yeah, but only if they go through very abnormal procedures, which cost a lot of money, to please a small number of people who have a twisted view of what womyn are supposed to look like.

    I think these shows will make lots of money for plastic surgeons and others who perpertrate the idea that womyn are NEVER good enough. As for womyn with deformaties, it seems only those with money or a job good enough to have excellent insurance coverage get to have these things repaired. Again, these womyn are seen as "not good enough." It is true that cosmetic procedures are addictive, as most of the womyn who get them have terribly low self esteem, and NEVER feel "good enough."
     
  11. sugrmag

    sugrmag Uber Nerd

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    i saw five minutes of the finale and hated every second. The women were already beautiful. They were purposely made to look tired and frumpy for the before pictures. Most of their "problems" were not physical but emotional. One women said that she was nursing a broken relationship for 10 years! I don't think a new nose and boobs would fix that problem! My daughter said that they looked like Barbie dolls. Plastic.
     
  12. nightmarehippygirl

    nightmarehippygirl LEVI'S MOMMY

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    i watched part of this too. a few of the ladies (one in particular, the one with the very large nose who also had a superabundance of facial hair), ended up looking better, but for the most part they all looked wierd and fake. most of the women initially could have used a makeover, in my opinion, as in a new hairstyle, some makeup, more flattering clothes, but i didn't think that overall they had problems that warranted such drastic surgery.overall, a very weird and disturbing competition.
     
  13. Ginge

    Ginge Ye Olde Member

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    I agree with that 100%. We had to analyze an episode of The Swan in my Sociology of the Mass Media class, and we couldn't even watch the whole thing. Everyone in the class (guys and girls alike) was sickened by it.

    I feel that if their self-esteem is that low (and it's obvious these women have the lowest of low self-esteem), I don't think any amount of plastic surgery is going to make them feel better about themselves. It is from the inside, and as long as the problem is still in your head, you're never going to be satisfied with the outer you. You're always going to find something you don't like, and something that needs to be "fixed".

    I'm not against plastic surgery. People can nip and tuck whatever they want, however many times they want; it's fine with me. I just don't think fake boobs, fake lips, liposuction, etc. will heal emotional wounds. But as long as people keep watching these shows, they'll keep putting them on the air. It's all about the almighty dollar. Unfortunately.
     
  14. acetonephish

    acetonephish lickage

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    I rather like the swan. Its more than just entertainment. The Swan "Program" helped many of them to discover hapiness which they did not previously had, or was buried deep inside of them.

    I think its more than just entertainment, yes cameras are there, but they transformed not only outside but inside. Their transformations on the outside helped them feel better on the inside. This may sound shallow, but half of these people were teased as kids, and felt they could never truly be beautiful. They altered their faces to find happiness, but the thing was that they wanted to do that. They were ready for a change, and ready to feel happy for once. I don't think its really any of our concern that they actually did this, or why they did this.

    And talking about the pageant... winning the pageant would never really change how beautiful they were. One was not more beautiful than the other, just had different characteristics that the judges could in a sense "relate" to more. Not just physically, but mentally.

    Yes, many of them were sent there without winning the pageant, but they still got to feel ultimately beautiful anyway. They got to perform in an actual "beauty" pageant. didnt matter who won, since they all were named beautiful.
    So, anyway, as i said before, i wouldnt call it shallow or anything. They wanted a change. They chose to change. No one forced them. So who are we to say that what they did was "wrong" (spiritually ::cough:: and such). They did it for themselves without hurting anyone.
     
  15. mystical_shroom

    mystical_shroom acerbic

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    Well, I think it teaches people that looks are everything, that everything in your life will be wonderful and will be fixed if you are gorgeous. And not normal looking, these women all had like tight ass faces, some pointy eyes, i mean come on. Get a life. It has nothing to do with your outside. Who says that that is beauty, who says that they already didnt look fine...
    I think its a disgrace and i dont understand how come men arent on there...
    And how they all clap and say you are now beautiful after they look in the mirror..like its a club...give me a break...
    It just puts out the wrong message...I can see if the people are disfigured, burned, born with a disfigurment, someone who actually needs it...
     
  16. deezee

    deezee Member

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    i couldn't agree more mystical_shroom. as someone who has worked in the fashion industry all her life and is older, here's the part that you never see. these women will get older as we all do. and there comes a time in everyone's life when the response from men and others goes to someone younger and more attractive. if your whole perception of your worth as a woman depends on what you look like then you will be a very sad and scary older woman who always wil be trying to maintain her youth. i see this on a DAILY basis. that's why someone like farrah fawcett is so looney now. her whole world centered around people's reaction to her beauty and now that she no longer has that she cannot figure out why and is trying to recapture it through plastic surgery. this has nothing to do with being smart or not knowing that she is older. it is something that she accepted as her right from birth and on an emotional level can't accept that it has ended.
    one of the best parts of the hippie movement of the 60's was the idea of the acceptance of people for who they were. women started to like themselves as we were more free and assertive in our lives. i can't say that the show isn't entertaining on some level. but in the same way that i believe that violence on any screen has promoted violence in our lives, i think that shows like this only help make women AND MEN less accepting of who women are. being beautiful helps you in life. no getting around that. but in reality, it's hard to live a life depending on that and that alone. as much as this show trys to show how much they have helped these people psychologically, it would be a total CROCK to believe that a few months of therapy or years looking like a million will solve most of these peoples problems. and i fear for them as they get older and lose their looks once again, what will happen in their lives. then again the plastic surgeons are just assuring themselves of lots more future customers...

    deezee
     
  17. jendi17

    jendi17 Member

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    I hate this show. They are creating a stereotype of what's beautiful and what's not. They say beautiful is having big boobs and a little slope nose. They should have done the transformations by trying to change the women on the inside mainly and giving them a hair makeover and working out. They didn't need such drastic surgery to be beautiful.
     
  18. cutelildeadbear

    cutelildeadbear Hip Forums Gym Rat

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    Ironic, reminds me of Hitler. Isn't that what he was trying to do, create a "perfect race". Isn't that what this show and others like it is trying to do? Create more and more perfect people, and brainwashing this country to think this is what we should all strive to be? Then more and more people will want to look like the norm so they all go out and do what they can (everyone can't afford that crap) and eventually everyone will look exactly the same.

    I absolutely hate these types of programs.
     
  19. dotadave

    dotadave Member

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    Whoa!!

    Don't go there! How can you possibly compare a stupid game show, albiet one that reinforces gender roles with the mass execution of millions of people along with a maniacal quest to spread one's iron fisted rule to the entire planet?

     
  20. Ginge

    Ginge Ye Olde Member

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    I must agree with the others. That is a tad bit extreme. But...

    Just for that *points up*, I can look past it. :D
     

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