The squirrel and the tree.

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by MeAgain, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    This is a story told by the philosopher William James (January 11, 1842 – August 27, 1910).
    I came across it while rereading a book by Robert Pirsig.

    Without giving away James' conclusions and paraphrasing to shorten it without leaving out the essential parts, here it is:
    Bill returns from a walk in the woods and finds a number of his friends in a hot debate.
    It seems a squirrel is on the trunk of a tree and one of his friends is trying to get a view of it.
    But as he walks around the tree to see the squirrel it too rounds the tree trunk so that it always remains on the opposite side of the tree from the man.
    The man goes around the tree several times trying to see the squirrel but the squirrel also goes around the tree with him, always remaining on the other side so that the man never sees the squirrel.

    The debate centers on the question, does the man go around the squirrel?

    Without looking it up.........(which probably won't help as Pirsig makes a point that James didn't...I don't think.)
     
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  2. We would encircle the squirrel's orbit around the center of the tree, but we wouldn't encircle the squirrel itself.
     
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  3. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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  4. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    Pirsig was a flaming genius by any standard, but William James was a bit of a distraction. Wittgenstein resembles reading a car repair manual, but it was he who first popularized linguistic analysis as the solution to such pragmatic-quagmires (sic). The common problem they all shared is that fuzzy logic had not been invented yet and academia rejects anything even vaguely humorous or that defies causal metaphysics. Note that wisdom philosophy of any kind has not been popular in over a century, while physicists and philosophers have increasingly adopted the use of Contextualism as a tool, but seldom comprehend it or embrace it as a personal philosophy. In other words, we now have conclusive linguistic evidence, they are all full of crap and merely teach and research whatever makes money.

    Fuzzy logic was invented by desperate Japanese Bullet train engineers, who were all too well aware it contradicted classic logic and physics, but were desperate enough to try anything. Academics ignored their success for decades, and fuzzy logic went nowhere, until it started to spread to Chinese industries and academics had to explore the subject or risk being fired. The US government recently admitted they have classified a few fuzzy logic jokes as "Vital to the National Defense", because they express mathematics that can be used for anything, including putting an 800mph cruise missile through your window. Not bad for lame bullshit jokes, they express next generation cutting mathematics and physics, as well as make you laugh. They are also increasingly indistinguishable from quantum mechanics, with Quantum Darwinism and Quantum Chaos theories both being leading theories today.

    All the leading theories of everything today, incorporate yin-yang push-pull dynamics, while the answer to the question requires an explanation of the quantum observer effect, and a subtle sense of humor to comprehend.They say the first thing you learn about systems logics, is half the world has no idea of what they are, or even that such a thing is possible, and that's the western half. Reality TV and academia alike, will rot your brain, but talking about 150 year old puzzles like this and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin are tradition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  5. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    What did he think about quantum mechanics and AI?
     
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  6. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    Without the principle of identity, any questions are meaningless. For me anyway, I don't read minds and have no clue who you are asking about.
     
  7. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    Did you know that 1 in 5 Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth and it may or may not be illegal to vote for Mickey Mouse?
     
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  8. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    Tell me more...
     
  9. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    1 in 5 Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth and it may or may not be illegal to vote for Mickey Mouse.
     
  10. desert-rat

    desert-rat Senior Member

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    1 in 5 Americans might also believe the earth is flat . Personaly I would think the squirrel would either run away or up the tree , assuming the man was there to eat the poor squirrel .
     
  11. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    We have more gun dealers than gas stations in the US, and only an idiot would try to eat a squirrel, which tastes like green acorns.
     
  12. Driftrue

    Driftrue Banned

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    i think what neon said.
     
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    From the perspective of an outside viewer, he would have gone around the squirrel as the squirrel is on the tree and making a concentric circle about it's surface in relation to the man.

    But from the perspective of the squirrel as he always faces the man, the man never goes around him.
     
  14. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    From the middle of the ocean the earth looks pretty damned flat, from orbit round, from far away a dimensionless point, and from the other side of the universe its as if the earth had never existed. Theoretically, if the two moved at a significant fraction of the speed of light, they would see each other. The question requires classical logic and Euclidean Geometry to even ask, yet our universe obeys fuzzy logic and fractal geometry.
     
  15. '

    I just disagree there. From my perspective he never orbits the squirrel. He orbits its orbit, though.
     
  16. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    Why is this guy walking around a tree looking for a squirrel? There are ten squirrels about 20 feet away laughing their ass off watching this shyt... You know that, right?
     
  17. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Here's a picture I drew to illustrate the man going around the squirrel, the dotted line is the circle inscribed by the man with the squirrel as its center. The green circle is the tree. :
    [​IMG]
     
  18. The drawing isn't accurate at all, though. How the man goes around the tree varies, but that doesn't really matter. The squirrel's belly is always towards the man. So he never orbits the entire squirrel. Not in any sense does he make a circle around it. He makes a circle around its orbit around the tree only. He can't actually encircle the squirrel, though, on a whole.

    It's just like as if you had a planet that revolved in an orbit always with its back towards the Earth. If it's nearer the sun, the Earth orbits around its orbit, but the Earth never encircles the planet.
     
  19. parua

    parua Members

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    Imagine identical paths with the tree removed.
     
  20. Even if the tree weren't there, the squirrel would be orbiting its circumference. There's just no getting around that you don't do a circle around the squirrel.
     

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