The scientific teachings of christianity

this has got to be one of the silliest threads i've seen started by the vested interests of fanatacism yet. and clearly demonstrates fanatacisms total lack of any slightest immagining (or caring for that matter) of what science (or even honesty in any other sense) really is.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Im not sure what you want to know?
The modern scientific method comes out of a Christian worldview.
This is because the Judeo-Christian thinking believed that God was a God of order, logic and reason and that God could be 'seen' in his Creation.
They believed that Creation (the natural world around us) could be studied and tested etc.

So out of what was called 'Christendom' you saw born what is now known worldwide as 'Modern Science'.

Questions or comments?

 

Themnax.

You got that right

Ikden. Themnax does'nt seem to want to know anything. [from you]
Maybe you are not the font of all wisdom ....'''GASP'''

Modern science 'evolved from' a christian worldview.
The redundant species/meme will soon pass away.
[though jesus 'will' be remembered, but not the church]

By the way, you did not answer the reply. There is not enough water for
a global flood.
Once again, you simply answer with a personal attack on occam and no mention of his reply to you..
HOW, can there be a global flood if there is only enough water on earth to bring sea level to cover 75% on land mass.
Leaving many millions of square kilometers above water?

Hmmmmmmmmm?

Occam

 

Comment - this is not accurate.. The church did everything it could to attempt to stifle the beginnings of modern science. Galileo was forced to recant his correct theory that the earth orbits the sun etc.
If they'd been successful, we'd still be imagining that we lived on a flat earth in the ptolomeic universe.
Any logical element in c/anity comes not from the bible, but from the ancient greeks, whose philosophical forms the xians tried to use to prop up their own theology.

 

You are beyond inaccurate and did nothing more than make up a fake story about a history that doesnt exist.

Galileo was a Christian and actually quite a hardcore roman catholic as well. His work was motivated by his wish to see the glory of Gods creation revealed to mankind.
He speaks of this quite a bit and Im gonna let you google around since it would benefit you anyways.

Yes, Christianity is a logic and reason based faith.
You are so far ignorant of the most basic premises and discourses found throughout its New Testament that I wouldnt even know where to begin.
How about "Come let us reason together".

The Greeks (and Romans) had some scientific methods but the these were being lost to the world towards the end of the eras.
What you and I (and the rest of the world now) call the Modern Scientific Method comes directly out of Christendom.
Often directly sponsored by the Church itself, directly out of the Abbeys and building things like 'Universities' and fathering sciences you know and love today.

This isn't 'controversial' but is a very well documented fundamental understanding of western civilisation.
Not something you can just say 'No it isnt' and write imaginary fake stories to the contrary.

Sorry to disappoint.

 

With the loss of many of his defenders in Rome because of Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, Galileo was ordered to stand trial on suspicion of heresy in 1633. The sentence of the Inquisition was in three essential parts:

• Galileo was required to recant his heliocentric ideas; the idea that the Sun is stationary was condemned as "formally heretical." However, while there is no doubt that Pope Urban VIII and the vast majority of Church officials did not believe in heliocentrism, Catholic doctrine is defined by the pope when he speaks ex cathedra (from the Chair of Saint Peter) in matters of faith and morals. While Church officials did condemn Galileo, heliocentrism was never formally or officially condemned by the Catholic Church.
• He was ordered imprisoned; the sentence was later commuted to house arrest.
• His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial and not enforced, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.

Occam

 

The first important attack on Galileo began in 1610, when he announced that his telescope had revealed the moons of the planet Jupiter. The enemy saw that this took the Copernican theory out of the realm of hypothesis, and they gave battle immediately. They denounced both his method and its results as absurd and impious. As to his method, professors bred in the "safe science" favoured by the Church argued that the divinely appointed way of arriving at the truth in astronomy was by theological reasoning on texts of Scripture; and, as to his results, they insisted, first, that Aristotle knew nothing of these new revelations; and, next, that the Bible showed by all applicable types that there could be only seven planets; that this was proved by the seven golden candlesticks of the Apocalypse, by the seven-branched candlestick of the tabernacle, and by the seven churches of Asia; that from Galileo's doctrine consequences must logically result destructive to Christian truth. Bishops and priests therefore warned their flocks, and multitudes of the faithful besought the Inquisition to deal speedily and sharply with the heretic.[131b]

In vain did Galileo try to prove the existence of satellites by showing them to the doubters through his telescope: they either declared it impious to look, or, if they did look, denounced the satellites as illusions from the devil. Good Father Clavius declared that "to see satellites of Jupiter, men had to make an instrument which would create them." In vain did Galileo try to save the great truths he had discovered by his letters to the Benedictine Castelli and the Grand-Duchess Christine, in which he argued that literal biblical interpretation should not be applied to science; it was answered that such an argument only made his heresy more detestable; that he was "worse than Luther or Calvin."

The war on the Copernican theory, which up to that time had been carried on quietly, now flamed forth. It was declared that the doctrine was proved false by the standing still of the sun for Joshua, by the declarations that "the foundations of the earth are fixed so firm that they can not be moved," and that the sun "runneth about from one end of the heavens to the other."[132]

But the little telescope of Galileo still swept the heavens, and another revelation was announced--the mountains and valleys in the moon. This brought on another attack. It was declared that this, and the statement that the moon shines by light reflected from the sun, directly contradict the statement in Genesis that the moon is "a great light." To make the matter worse, a painter, placing the moon in a religious picture in its usual position beneath the feet of the Blessed Virgin, outlined on its surface mountains and valleys; this was denounced as a sacrilege logically resulting from the astronomer's heresy.

Still another struggle was aroused when the hated telescope revealed spots upon the sun, and their motion indicating the sun's rotation. Monsignor Elci, head of the University of Pisa, forbade the astronomer Castelli to mention these spots to his students. Father Busaeus, at the University of Innspruck, forbade the astronomer Scheiner, who had also discovered the spots and proposed a _safe_ explanation of them, to allow the new discovery to be known there. At the College of Douay and the University of Louvain this discovery was expressly placed under the ban, and this became the general rule among the Catholic universities and colleges of Europe. The Spanish universities were especially intolerant of this and similar ideas, and up to a recent period their presentation was strictly forbidden in the most important university of all--that of Salamanca.[133]

Such are the consequences of placing the instruction of men's minds in the hands of those mainly absorbed in saving men's souls. Nothing could be more in accordance with the idea recently put forth by sundry ecclesiastics, Catholic and Protestant, that the Church alone is empowered to promulgate scientific truth or direct university instruction. But science gained a victory here also. Observations of the solar spots were reported not only from Galileo in Italy, but from Fabricius in Holland. Father Scheiner then endeavoured to make the usual compromise between theology and science. He promulgated a pseudo-scientific theory, which only provoked derision.

The war became more and more bitter. The Dominican Father Caccini preached a sermon from the text, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven?" and this wretched pun upon the great astronomer's name ushered in sharper weapons; for, before Caccini ended, he insisted that "geometry is of the devil," and that "mathematicians should be banished as the authors of all heresies." The Church authorities gave Caccini promotion.

Father Lorini proved that Galileo's doctrine was not only heretical but "atheistic," and besought the Inquisition to intervene. The Bishop of Fiesole screamed in rage against the Copernican system, publicly insulted Galileo, and denounced him to the Grand-Duke. The Archbishop of Pisa secretly sought to entrap Galileo and deliver him to the Inquisition at Rome. The Archbishop of Florence solenmnly condemned the new doctrines as unscriptural; and Paul V, while petting Galileo, and inviting him as the greatest astronomer of the world to visit Rome, was secretly moving the Archbishop of Pisa to pick up evidence against the astronomer.

 

Jesus says, 'And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.' He says nothing about some gravity making them fall—just that they will fall... scientists need to realize is that 'gravity waves' and 'gravitons' are just secular words for 'God can do whatever He wants'.

Scientists tilt their findings toward trying to unite them into one force. But readers of the Bible have already known for millennia what this one, unified force is: His name is Jesus. Shit i mean God. His name is god.

 

Please do not bother copying and pasting googled articles on Galileo that do not even serve the purpose of informing, rebutting or refuting anything we have already discussed.

Once again, Galileo was a dedicated Christian and rather hardcore Roman Catholic. He was until the day he died.
Saying (among too many other things to list:
"“I render infinite thanks to God for being so kind as to make me alone the first observer of marvels kept hidden in obscurity for all previous centuries” "

What was certainly one of Galileos 'problems' was that he was a personal friend of not only both the Popes in his lifetime but also very popular and often celebrated and supported by many of the 'Higher-ups' in the Church.
Even during his trials.

Dont bother telling me again how Galileos theory went through shit with the Pope.
Yes.
The problem is that it was an 'In-House' issue that had far more to do with politics and friends hurting each others feelings than anything else.
But,
Even still it was a bizarre case of Christian Creationists (incl and esp Galileo) fighting very hard for SCIENCE.

Probably would help you to read thru this article
http://creationsafaris.com/wgcs_1.htm

Its the kind of obvious history of western civilisation that anyone can see for themselves but you will NOT see on Discovery/History channel or at your left-wing University.

 

Ikden

And thats all organised christianity is.
Power plays between beauracrats.
And we both know it.


Occam

 

Yep you got me.
Its all part of a big powerful plan where thousands of Pastors making huge plays for cash (we are talking 25-45K a year!!) and the power over the Wedding and funeral market battle to manipulate and change the Bible and Jesus teachings so people way dumber and almost 'childlike' compared to your amazing mind will just do what they are told.
Someone is an idiot.

 

Ikden

AH.. my amazing mind.
You really got to start trying another tactic.
All on hip know occam has eaten his own foot many tmes and has often been so drunk he cant quote straight. [love the wild turkey]
Sometimes occam IS an idiot.
But he has gained just enough wisdom to know it.
Maybe occam will not die a total fool.

And you exclusively talk of the lower echelons of organised religion.
the 'pastors'
How much power does a sargent have in a national army?
Lots?
No.. very very little.

How much does the pope get for changing the minds of 600 million catholics.? [25 to 45k a year?]

Occam

 

PS

And funny enough, occam being 'smoked'

YOU have never answered one of occams questions regarding creationist
premis. Cant? LOL

Occam

 

Seriously, you cannot possibly be the leading atheist/agnostic spokesman here?
I guess I should give you credit for being able to post at all between 'getting the munchies' and the various 'peaks' and 'downers' you must go through.

 

Wow, what tact you possess. Care to beat that dead horse some more?

 

You guys will find the quality of responses you get will improve if you avoid personal attacks. (I know, I've done personal attacks myself, but I'm trying to avoid it now.)

I still say, if you go to most any historical site involving geology, the people who run the place will throw figures of millions of years at you. The Grand Canyon took a mere 7,000,000 years to cut, as the underlying sediments were thrust upward beneath the Colorado river. But the sediments themselves are older than the cutting time by a factor of fifty, roughly, depending on which layer you're talking about.

Go to the Grand Canyon Visitor Center with your 6,000 year creation theory and you'll get a polite response and an amused smile from the resident park interpreter, who will likely have some academic credentials and likely not buy your theory.

 

Here is why you and no other 'old earthers' buy this argument.
The 'appeal to authority' argument.
(appeal to majority in this case).

Lets go back in time, not long ago and everyone believes that Earth was created.
Anywhere in the West or Middle east and everyone believed God did it some 6-10 thousand years ago.
This was what everyone understood.
Oh yes Scientist and everyone believed that - it was just the commonly understood 'facts of life' and it had been for farrrrrrrrrr longer than the current popular beliefs.
Yes, Isaac Newton believed it too, so did Galileo, so did everyone.

Darwin comes along and publishes his book.

If you were alive then, you want to tell me you would reject it since (at that time) it was NOT accepted.
Most people would tell you otherwise?

Well hang on.. after all that was just not the majority opinion even if a handful of researchers were trying to tell people otherwise.

Naw, Im not going to decide whats my best explanation based on what the current status quo is still stuck in.
Im proud of the pioneers out there who are willing to stick it out as the 'unpopular minority' for the truth.

 

The difference being that science bases its conclusions on physical evidence, not a book of fiction.