The Sad Truth

Discussion in 'Politics' started by wrat1, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Supporters Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Not exactly true is it ??? - or have you forgotten Mau Mau ??? , the Malasian campaign ??? The Indian mascres ??? to name but three !!!
  2. wilsjane

    wilsjane Members

    I don't know a great deal about Malesia, but in your other examples, we got drawn into divides that already existed in the countries in question. Yes, mistakes were made.
    I was mainly thinking about countries where their was democracy (such as Canada and Australia). Needless to say, Northern Ireland has been an ongoing problem, since the provisional IRA did not accept the divide and behaved like a bunch of terrorists. The REAL army of the republic (part of NATO) had no involvement and to this day their forces are free to visit the UK out of uniform. The same is true of our armed forces visiting the republic of Ireland.

    As I have already mentioned, we should have never involved ourselves in Iraq, but since Tony Blair was not a member of your favourite party, you will probably want to keep quiet about that one.
    Perhaps the best example was that while the American forces were unable to get within 5 miles of the Taliban caves, the BBC were inside the caves interviewing them and they all returned home alive. Work that one out.

    Have you ever watched John Pilger's documentary film "The truth about democracy". It is a real eye opener on US foreign policy..
    wrat1 likes this.
  3. hotwater

    hotwater Senior Member

    It's not the end of the dream.................perhaps ........

  4. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Supporters Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Because the uk CREATED the divisions by drawing lines on a map which separated whole communities one from another - divides which didn't exist before imperialists created them.

    As for Northern Ireland - it wasn't the IRA that caused the problem, but that stupid sod Churchill, who, as Home Secretary in 1921 oversaw the plebescite and insisted that each county's majority would be the decision, thus creating the six counties of Northern Ireland and once more creating a divide where one didn't exist.

    Your snide comment about me agreeing with Tony Bliar - doesn't hold water either, because I was one of more than 1 million protesters who, in February 2003 took plart in the biggest protest demonstration against the uk involvement in the war in Iraq London has ever seen.
  5. wilsjane

    wilsjane Members

  6. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    LOL, you go ahead and tell everyone they can't have a government and can't call it whatever the fuck they want. The MONEY is doing all the fucking driving worth talking about, and the MONEY will keep right on doing all the driving, COME HELL OR HIGH WATER! The Great American Experiment started out in the toilet and led to the fucking civil war! The question remains, where the fuck do we go from here, and I say a UN occupied America is just about what the Doctor ordered, in the fucking emergency room! Believe it or not, the God Damned UN knows a thing a two about democracy and how to flush the crap out!

    To quote the Joker, "What This Town Needs Is An Enema!"
  7. wilsjane

    wilsjane Members

    Ireland is a very complex subject and the problems predate the formation of the 6 counties by more than 200 years.
    Early English settlers (some called them invaders) attempted to set up farms, but the damp weather caused the crops to fail. Wheat was the only cereal that stood a chance against the weevils, but the quality was poor. It was almost impossible to export, since it rapidly went mouldy after the harvest. As a result, potatoes were grown.
    The native Irish workers were never happy with the settlers becoming rich, while their smallholdings made it difficult to do much more than feed their families.
    Fore many years, the potato crop suffered from blight (a fungal infection), but the more intensive farming caused it to spread like wildfire.
    Things came to a head between 1845 and 1849 when mass failure of the crop resulted in more than a million deaths. While this was happening, the landowners did little to help.
    Without doubt, this resentment led to the declaration of independence. The declaration was made during WW1, on the assumption that the UK had no army available to send in. However our stupid government set up a regiment by releasing prisoners. (the black and tans). They reeked havoc, committing rapes and murders.
    This was the mess that Churchill attempted to sort out. The newly formed Irish government was issuing deportation orders on EVERY English landowner, not allowing them to transfer any assets.
    The 6 counties agreement was part of a complex trade deal, part of which was the UK importing Irish milk. This deal still stands today and is worth £20 million to Ireland.
    The border was across existing country boundaries.

    The problem was, that the 6 counties had a native population that was now outnumbered by the English who had been herded in.
    The rest is history, including the natives setting up the IRA, a terrorist organisation with no formal links to the republic.
    wrat1 likes this.
  8. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Supporters Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Again not entirely accurate - these so-called settlers were, in part. rich landowners (Arthur Wellesley - the Duke of Wellington was but one of them) and Scottish crofters moved from their own crofts, but granted land by the English Government in Ireland. During the famine, the English Government. whilst being fully aware of the situation and having a great deal of responsibility for its cause, did nothing and brought about the death from starvation of thousands if not more than one million Irish crofters. Those that didn't die, abandoned their crofts and fled abroad (mainly to the US) leaving the abandoned crofts to be absorbed into the larger farms of the rich landowners (mainly protestants).
  9. wilsjane

    wilsjane Members

    That is correct, we could write a book on the subject that I summarised.

    You may not know that Jane is Irish and we spend a lot of time in Cork.
    Our daughter in-law is also a professor of Irish history (university college Dublin) and lectures all over the world, including the Arab states.
    wrat1 likes this.
  10. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Supporters Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Yes, well I'm not a professor of history but I do know enough about it to comment on the subject !!!
  11. wrat1

    wrat1 Members

  12. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    The civil war of the 1860s never ended. Our society has shown/does show that, over and over. Any liberal gains have been fought against by right wingers, the landed gentry, the racists and the stupid. It obviously continues.
  13. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    The civil war was caused by people organizing along the lines of a brainless flock of chickens, with a little help from Aristotelian logic and modern technology at the time. They organize like chickens, because you can't organize any simpler, and the trick is encouraging them to organize in more complex ways, and encouraging the stupid chickens to actually tell the truth once in awhile, share their words, and play nice. Its networking systems logic that can also be used to describe how the conscious and unconscious mind work, but is anathema in western civilization, which promotes organizing like chickens.

    Today, fundamentalism has spread thanks to universal literacy and the modern mass media, and encouraged the chickens to organize in ever greater numbers, mindless fucking zombies baby! Their own technology is rapidly killing them, causing their population to implode and making all the lies entirely unsustainable.
  14. wrat1

    wrat1 Members

    Scharff, ~Zen~ and Tyrsonswood like this.

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