The Psychedelic Revolution

For the sake of argument. I told you I would still give you crap about the way you come across at times.

Hey, thats how my family finds me too! We do have a lot in common.

Crazy militant dyke bitches! (no offense autumnbreeze, BAZINGA!)

See how they run like pigs from a gun
See how they fly, I'm crying..............
....................................................
Elementary penguin singing Hare Krishna
Man, you should have seen them kicking
on thedope

I am the eggman
They are the eggmen
I am the walrus
Goo goo g' joob
G-goo goo g' joob
Goo goo g' goo
G-goo goo g' joob goo

Juba juba juba
Juba juba juba
Juba juba, juba juba
Juba juba

 

Dude, I like totally became, you know, like the paint, and uuhh, and I was all like, uumm stuck on the wall man. only problem man was there was like , uh you know, a spider painted on the, uhhm, wall next to me man,. It was like man TOTALLY trippy man!

 

Jeez man... that's faarrr outtt... :coffee:

 

And here we get to the meat of the matter. You have hang ups of your own it would appear. You look at me making some very reasonable points on something and instantly relate me to your experiences with someone for who that topic was one that caused intense anger.

I think one reason feminists slide in the direction of angry radical is in response to so many people listening to reasonable arguments and saying things like 'it's all in your head'. Well, yeah, and I'm all in -your- head, what's your point? Within the world of experience, there are those who say things like 'men are the cornerstone of society', and 'men should have greater responsibility, because they are more gifted at handling it'. And the majority of people hearing that sort of statement just sort of pass it by, or agree with it.

One of the reasons I come across so passionate about the gender thing is that this sort of thing is -everywhere-. It's pretty constant, just about everywhere one cares to look. And I experiment around with new ways of presenting myself, ways of trying to open some eyes.

Like, if you walked through your life watching people on a regular basis just punching a certain sort of person. Picking on them, hurting them, doing mean things...stuff -you- felt was wrong, but most people sort of thought was basically acceptable, even positive, or at least not a big deal. But you had a pretty good notion that it was actually hurting real people who didn't deserve it. You might consider trying to figure out ways to show people that what they were doing was...maybe wrong, if you do right/wrong... at least harmful.

Well, this is different, but similar. Obviously the example I used was metaphorical. I see people perpetuating stereotypes, and preaching inequality all the time and to me it looks harmful. I've seen first hand the harm it causes at least some people. So I try and point it out sometimes when I see it. Try and figure ways to put it that will make sense to folks.

To me, that's as much of a concrete fact as gravity. As the idea that if I let something I'm holding in my hand go, it will likely fall. It may be all in my head in a less abstract/existentialist manner, but if so my entire understanding of the social world is inherently flawed. This is also possible, but seems to me a stretch.

But then I get caught up in the flow of the argument and derail threads. And I'm not sure I ever manage to open any minds in the process. I don't know. It's probably mostly just annoying.

 

Yeah, pretty much just annoying.













BAZINGA!!!!!

 

I have stayed out of this whole men vs women aspect to this, but I'm a big mouth so here goes;
From what I see men and women just simply think and process information very differently.
That is established not only behaviorialy but also bio-chemically.
As such there are things that women are better suited to than men and vice-versa which is wholly dictated by differences in our neuro-chemical makeup.
A lot of the stereotypes for both sexes stem from these very real differences in the way men and women differ in information processing.

Don't really have much more than that, but I will respond in advance to any rebuttal or response you would like to give, autumnbreeze, thusly;

Yes dear, anything you say.

UH HUH, *nods head* Yes dear.

Get right on it tomorrow, dear.

Ok, Luv you too.

After 17 years of marriage those just seem to be the safest responses I can muster.

 

It did not cause anger for me, and I said that the exchange did have an element of my past. I'm certainly not out to conceal anything.

The point is exactly that. Because it's all in our heads that is where we can effect change.

 

You misread me. I didn't imply that this conversation caused you anger. I'm saying that it keyed into an experience you've had with someone else, that someone else was one that this topic caused intense anger to. And hence you easily misinterpret me, as you assume I am like she was. I doubt that I am, seeing as I am far from your description of her. But it causes you to subconsciously interpret my words through that lens.

Well, by that token, talking about it to other people -is- affecting change in my head. Because those people are also in my head.

Put another way, I sometimes like a glass of water. I have a feeling of discomfort in my body that I associate with water. I have found that getting a glass of water makes this discomfort go away. There exists the possibility that I could simply meditate the feeling away. In fact, I know I can, I've done it before. But there is also the possibility that if I do so long enough, I will die. Whatever death might entail. Generally, when I want water, I activate my body, get up, go to the sink, and pour myself a glass of water. And drink it. And voila! the feeling goes away.

Sure there exists a possibility that if I meditate hard enough, society will just get all better all on it's own. But I am a creature of doing. When I have an itch, I like to scratch it. If I see society has an itch, I try to figure out what I can do to -help- scratch it. And I see the inequality of the sexes as a fairly notable itch. I am but one cell within the body of the entity that is humankind. I like to think of myself as a nerve cell, part of some ganglial cluster somewhere. But I do what I can.

You may call this error, and yet it seems to me that when you have an itch, you too turn to scratch it. When you get a craving for odd conversation, you flip on the ole 'puter and scratch that itch here on hipforums. If you were existing constantly as a being of pure light or in a near constant state of meditation and only breaking from that once a year to pour forth pearls of wisdom to the world, I might be able to take your advice to 'just change it in your mind' a bit more seriously.

As it is, your advice seems to be frankly condescending. Effectively telling me that my concerns are ones that, in particular, are not worth worrying about. That if I just go with the flow it won't matter to me. Well, that may be true. But it will matter to those I love, it will continue to hurt those I love. If someone was to hurt your wife, who I assume you love, would you try to act to stop them, or would you just meditate your caring away?

 

It occurs to me that we are never upset by the existence of a fact but by our interpretation of a fact, therefore to be passionate about something is to stew in our own juices. I personally prefer to recognize things, become intimate with them.

I think we teach all the time without interruption, there are no idle thoughts.
We emerge into the environment an example. We take up space. We have a voice in the world of ideas. We breath in both combustible and inert gases and exhale the wastes of combustion.

I get that. I imagine we are all familiar with the issues as our humanity is a common affair. We live in a world you could describe as the condition of embodiment. Everything has a body every body has to eat. Don't feed it, it starves for lack of energy. Once you have burned your hand in a fire, how long do we need to keep it there before we get the message? "Breakdowns come and breakdowns go, whatta ya gonna do bout it, that's what I'ld like to know.
All of our anxieties in life appear as misapprehensions of what is so. There is no "degree of difficulty", the truth sets us free. An un-embellished fact can dispel an anxious moment.

To me, because the principles of life are self organizing, we may comfort in the fact that we need do nothing and therefore are free, not obligated, to do what we will. When we recognize that we all share the same will, then harmonious relations are the natural result.

I regard all efforts as maximal and I don't think you cheat the world of anything.

 

Actually, you continue to speak in a manner, while not to the degree of my wife, is of much the same content.
I don't think my conclusion too hasty in this regard. I did, after I posted my response consider that you could have meant that the other person displayed anger.
The content I refer to being the impulse to try an interrupt an enduring pattern as a matter of principle.

I do agree.

Actually all action is inspired by the activity of the mind. Animus animates animal. It is not a matter of meditating hard enough. It is a matter of consistency, there are no idle thoughts. The storms in the atmosphere reflect the storms in our mind and the storms in our mind reflect the storms in the atmosphere, and both are the result of uneven heating.

What exactly do you feel I am calling error?
Are you familiar with the garment of my life? Do you have any idea what my overall state of mind might be through a single conversation?
I actually came to hipforums because I had written a book over two years and unfortunately was only recorded on my desk top and was vaporized by a visiting user. My room mate turned me on to hf and it occurred to me to rewrite the book in the public domain to save time. So I am sharing this information through conversation. I have been encouraged to do so by those who know me. I enjoy this activity very much and I am pleased with the development of ideas and am thrilled by the bright minds I have met.

I inadvertently frighten young children with my deep voice, until they get to know me, then they get away with murder.

 

Shrug. That's the script you know. It's the script she knows. It's how the myths tell you to act. Interaction runs smoother, though not always more positively, when you follow the societal script. Breaking the script causes disruption. MLK and Alice Paul broke the societal script and caused disruption. But they also helped to revise the script itself, and from my perspective it was to the better.

There does seem to be a difference between men and women, and there does seem to be a biochemical aspect. Taking hormones changes the way the mind works, this seems obvious from my experimenting with several forms of birth control until I found one that works. However it also seems that the difference between members within each sex is greater then the deviation between the 2. In fact the deviation seems to max out around 20% of the difference.

This means that for any trait, there are men that have it more extremely then 80% of all women. It also means that 30% of all men have it more then 50% of all women. So for any role we prescribe for women, a full 1/3 of men will actually be better at it then half of the women who take on the role. And vice versa.

There's also quite a bit of room for argument about which traits are biological and which societal and how much of each. Studies have shown that when girls are given strong support in math, and told that girls tend to be better at learning and testing then boys, they tend to actually do better at math tests then boys. When they are reminded that boys are better at math, they tend to be worse. This is a measurable phenomenon.

There's also room for argument about which traits are actually better suited for which roles. For instance, men seem to have a stronger competitive urge and seem prone to be more likely to resort to violence to solve problems, on average. And women seem slightly more prone to cooperative behavior. It's been shown that money given to women in Africa, as opposed to men, creates a notably higher likelihood of causing long-term positive change in the local economy. This makes it somewhat open for discussion as to which set of traits is better suited for 'handling more of the responsibility of deciding what society should look like'.

But that's moot on the whole, as it's fairly obvious that if men have the lion's share of this 'responsibility', they are prone to abusing it. They are prone to not take women's actual interests into account when making decisions about the lives of women. They may take what they assume to be women's interests into account, but I think that decisions that affect women are best handled by at least having some women in the decision making process. And vice versa. I don't actually advocate a women-run society, as I don't think women would do that great a job of taking men's interests into account.

And this argument is actually -supported- by the notion that men and women do seem to have some deviations in their manner of acting, of thinking. It may be that eventually we settle down into there being some roles that are simply more likely to be 'female' roles, and some that are more likely to be 'male' roles. But those roles involved in deciding the course of society really need to be split pretty evenly.

 

I come across as passionate because I get fulfillment out of acting in passionate ways. To see something as a 'problem' and do nothing would be to stew in my own juices. To see a possibility of something 'better' and work toward it is something different entirely.

Sure. And one of the ways that I teach is by testing out methods of presenting the ideas that I have. Of presenting my dreams of a world that is one step closer to one in which humans grow up with an easy access to love and understanding, and a support in following their desires, and a clear teaching of how to treat each other well. I don't know that we can ever reach a 'perfected' state, but moving society in such a direction seems to me to be a worthy use of my lifetime.

In some cases yes. And perhaps if I was to attain some state of pure enlightenment, I would be able to look upon humans hurting one another with equanimity. But I don't wish to. I don't have any desire to find myself in a space where my empathy fails. Where the sight of a child crying doesn't move me. Where injustice is no more meaningful then the sighing of the wind. Empathy is my connection to life, to love, it's my connection to Other. Without it, I exist in a space of peaceful loneliness.

I have passion, I have dreams, I have emotion and empathy and I love that about myself. It is something I choose. It is something I Will.

No need to act, yet desire to act. Creativity and action, dreams and ambition, desire and all it's foibles, are something that I feel should not be pushed aside. Should not be seen as failings, or something to be escaped. They are why we are here, if there be any reason to this at all. They are something to celebrate, they are gifts to be enjoyed.

Some efforts are seem more effective then others. Shrug. Skill at action is learned, missteps are valuable in the lessons they teach. No action is ever perfectly in line with a solitary will, as will is always divided while we exist in a divided world. We can only set ourselves a direction, and take steps that way. And we live life fullest when we have a direction yet hold loosely to the idea of actually reaching any true goals, and instead aim to enjoy the journey.

 

Hmm...i wish i had something to contribute but i just don't right now. Other than the fact that i should mention that we're only 2 pages away from 60.

 

I regard mastery as being able to pick ones life up and set it down at will.

I once had an ecstatic vision. I came home from work to find all of the faces I had concern for sitting around a television set. They turned and looked up at me smiling as though they hadn't a care in the world, as to inquire, what's the problem, then they turned back to watching, Wheel of Fortune.

Yes, but move you to what end?

To me the sighing wind whispers justice.

Guess you haven't made it to Jupiter yet, the close gravity of that place makes you want to do nothing other than find some space alone. Just kidding, (sort of). I know many with the idea that the world is not valuable unless it is a problem to be solved.

Do you then create your own biological form?

Actually your will is inviolate and there is no opposing will, all of creation sharing the same will. What I see evidence of is a split mind, divided and inconsistent effort.
,

There is only one way you can go, yours.

How many life samplings have you made to come to this conclusion?

 

And this is something you find disturbing?

"And the day came, when the risk to remain closed in a bud, became more painful then the risk it took to blossom"

Trite perhaps, but of value. Put another way: I appear to be lactose intolerant, but I love cheese. At some point along the line, the discomfort associated with my enduring pattern of eating cheese became greater than the joy I gained from eating it. I then went through a time of notable discomfort, an intensification if you will. As I went past that point of balance, the conflicting desires caused a period of unrest, of tension within me. Eventually, I cut back on my eating of dairy, and now I don't miss it much. The unease died down as a new balance was achieved.

Just because a pattern of behavior is enduring doesn't mean it is the best way of being. We are in a period of unrest, of discomfort, as we adjust to a change in the pattern of behavior. I play my role as one of the agitators that pushes toward a new pattern. Others play their role as agitators that hold onto to the desires that keep us within the old patterns. I see our motion toward the new pattern as fairly inevitable, but this doesn't mean that no action is called for. The stronger the call for the new pattern, the sooner the unrest will cease, as we ease our way into a new pattern of behavior.

Hence my actions are well in line with what you suggest. Action without and action within are one. I've aligned myself with a pattern that I see emergent in the world, and act in alignment with it.

I love storms. I feel such intensity when there is a storm. It reminds me of what a joy it is to be alive.

Shrug. I don't know anything about you aside from what you write here. And that's my point exactly. You do not hold a place in my life, or the lives of most on here, where you can speak with authority on life as life without it being mere arrogant pretension. You don't build up a space from which your words hold weight, you simply walk in here and speak in what, in writing, is considered the 'authoritarian voice'. Which makes you seem a bit of a fool, and come across as highly abrasive.

More condescension. I think you would be better served, if sharing information is what you seek, to build a rapport before you speak in such a tone. Otherwise it is quite likely in many cases to result in people tuning out the message, due to feeling insulted by the delivery.

 

There is a time for all things. Inspiration has it's place, as does acceptance. The fact that your ecstatic vision didn't affect them doesn't mean it held no value.

Need there be an end? Or a particular end to any particular type of feeling? The crying of a child may move me to action. To act to console or comfort the child. Or it may move me to teach the one that hurt the child another way to act. Or it may move me to act in more immediate defense of the child. Or it may simply move me to feel for the child and do nothing.

At times it does for me as well. At times it simply speaks of peace in my soul. At times, it says nothing but a sigh and moves me not at all. It rarely moves me to action though.

Balance in all things. I have indeed spent time in such pressure, where the weight of the world was so intense I felt a need for quiet. I've lived in spaces where finding a moment's peace is a blessing, and I've spent weeks without a single human interaction. I've taken a thousand mile bicycle ride just for the joy of doing it, and the peace and quiet it entailed. I've lived outside for a full year, hitchhiking around the country. I've lived in a communal setting where noise and bustle and interpersonal drama was a constant presence.

Balance in all things.

Perhaps I do. From one perspective I certainly do. Regardless, I choose it.

Of course, and this is what I said exactly. Within me, there are ambitions and desires divided. 'Pure intention juxtaposed, the thing that set our souls in motion'. As within, so without, there are desires divided within the whole as there all within the one. Ambivalence in the literal sense, feeling strongly about opposing desires. This is a central aspect of the human experience. From it, all existence springs, all motion, all change. Without it, there would be no change, and without change, no experience.

The same number as you: All of them.

I've led a million lives,
As a saint, as a monster.
I've been a rock, I've been a stick,
I've been a river, a lake,
I was the fire beneath the feet of Joan of Ark.

 

Dude, it all goes with the job description. I find you to be somewhat bitchy for no apparent reason at this point, except perhaps because I haven't followed PB's suit of, "yes mam".
The fact is that the human condition is ubiquitous. the I am I call myself is the same I am you call your self.

Actually no. I tend to scare small children at first meeting. I am tall and have a deep voice.

Due to the requirements of condition, when you say more condescension, I hear the voice of a bruised ego.

I am not saying that the offended deserve to be offended but it is the offended who take offense.

 

In my world, the slightest concern is the same as the greatest devotion, and the least irritation is the same as the greatest catastrophe.

So you are aware after all, on who's authority I speak.

 

Also, on your position about mastery:

All are -able- to put down their lives and pick them up at will. Most simply do not choose to. Doing so is an action, such action generally has cause. Even if the cause is merely whim, or to prove to yourself that you are able to do so, there is cause. For some there is value in doing so. For others, there is not. Or the price of doing so seems to high to justify the action. When the price of inaction is greater then the apparent price of action, they will act. Not before. So it has always been, so far as I can tell.

 

The moral to the story is that my concern was misplaced. They were where they wanted to be, much like you. The value of the vision was for me.