The Psychedelic Revolution

The duality itself is what gives both sides meaning.
One "half" is never gonna "fall away".

Nature is not static. It's like you are trying to attribute God-like qualities to nature.
Nature is always in a state of flux, it's always changing.

Who is this saying "we are the tao"?
This Mooji-moment was brought to you by neodude1212.

So what? Nothing imagining nothingness.
Oh, sure, everything has a purpose. Or is a purpose within nothingness really a purpose at all?
The moment you become arrogant enough to actually think you can consciously understand and dictate your purpose is when you are in trouble.

 

lol this Mooji-moment. Man he's helped me out tremendously. I love that guy.

 

I volunteer for that

 

Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah...hahaha:smilielol5:That was great thanks for the laugh.

 

wasn't joking though

 

is the existence of a flower in the meaning we derive into the shape and form of being a flower? or is the existence of the flower latent in the realital and human archetype?

human history is cyclical when we don't learn from history. history is a road map of the thousands of years of mistakes and triumphs that humanity has made. you repeat the same things, when you don't learn from your mistakes. it is cyclical in that way. but history is truly progressive, not cyclical. that is, if 'history' is even an appropriate word.

tao, causality, life, existence, it's all the same.

i don't know man. your getting away from the point. i was talking about the human creature, not the purpose of dew on flowers. although, i'm sure that there are many things which are dependant on the morning dew.

yes, we are imbued with the drive to make our purpose. but did you ever stop to think why we look for purpose? or did you just write it off as vanity because you couldn't see any purpose. the fact that humans search for purpose, and even have a vital part of their full functioning derived from purpose, tells me that humans are not complete without a purpose. if you look at a man without purpose, you will see him depressed and struggling. if you look at a man with purpose, even if it is falsely directed, he is much stronger and fuller. so how much more fullfilled then will someone be if they are in touch with their true purpose?

well there was an ideal state of nature a'priori to man, because no creatures on earth are as complex as man is. it is easy, and impossible for them to go outside of the constructs of their existence. because if they did, they would die. it really isn't that much different for man, except that man has more rope to hang themselves on. and also man's plight is in the spiritual realm as well as the physical. it's as simple as if you build factories it pollutes the enviroment and the moral charachter of man by making him lazy. it's as simple as if you have a hole in the ozone then something is seriously wrong. it's as simple as if man is destroying the whole planet, something has gone awry.

the fact that we are spiritual creatures on an eternal journey. the moral and spiritual integrity of our existence is what most of society has fallen away from. buddhism, and judeao-christian thoughts are all just forms of the same thing. neither of them have the whole picture seperatly. there could be alot to be learned if christ and buddha had a long talk.

trust what your soul tells you, and just let go.

is it? or do the same laws of survival still exist today as they did for all of time?

maybe the purpose is to make nothingness into somethingness. even beyond mere futile conceptualisations of somethingness within the nothingness, but rather to transform the whole nothingness into somethingness.

 

The "need" for fulfillment is nothing but an ego game.
What is the grand purpose of staring at the wall of a cave for 7 years in the name of zen?
Enlightenment? Clarity? Understating?
What every spiritual tradition attempts to teach, is yet another expression of how spiritual truths are always a paradox - the purpose of it is to discover that there is no purpose to it.

Yes.

I'm sorry Desos but frankly such grandiose statements do nothing but repulse me.
Making nothingness into somethingness is what almost every person on the planet has been trying to do ever since the inception of time, and all of them died.

 

i don't know why a person would stare at a wall for 7 years in the name of zen. try giving your life to other people for 7 years in the name of zen.

:smilielol5: and you can die trying.

 

Well, that would be because most people believe that the best way to "give your life to other people" is to first achieve the highest state of consciousness available to a man.
You can't save a drowning victim when you yourself can't swim.

 

Desos, what makes you think that time isn't cyclical? It just seems to make more sense to me that this is the way it actually is. But i don't really know.

It just seems more correct if things are truley Eternal. Then there's not really any progression. Sure there's the play of progression. But it's all coming from the same eternal source. Just a hunch.

 

Be careful though, man. You don't think Hitler felt that he was also in touch with his true purpose? Who knows, though, perhaps it was his true purpose. But look what happened.

But then again, who's to say that that's how things shouldn't have happened? It DID happen, that's the point. So things just ARE. So that must mean that purpose also just IS, no matter what you declare that purpose to be. And whether it's considered a "good" or "evil" purpose is in the eye of the beholder. So then what defines TRUE purpose? Does "True" prefer good over bad or vice versa?

I'm just thinking out loud here...

So good and evil both just ARE. Same goes with the magical "purpose" that goes behind them. So is one better than the other? But then again "better" is just another concept that just arises out of nothing. gahh....

It's all so damn meaningless man. So meaningless that you can create all the meaning in the universe that you want. It's a playground of meaninglessness and meaningfulness. Might as well throw both of those concepts out the window. Or not...doesn't matter either way.

It's all so free. But that can be frightening too.

 

Desos my young friend, your beginning to ramble nonsense dude.
I am growing weary of such discussions because they are ultimately fruitless. All the shit you have been blabbering on about is meaningless in the complexity that you keep layering on.

Life's purpose is simple, so simple it easily eludes us and especially when we strive to apply meaning to everything.
The other day while watching my daughter play soccer it occurred to me that the element that is eluding some who frequent this particular forum is the simplicity of just living life and accepting it at face value. I know I have fallen victim to it at times in my life, more so when I was younger without a family.

How often have you read that someone after taking psychedelics are having a hard time relating to others, can't understand why other people don't "get it" and on and on.
Hey, I have often been in that mindset myself.
I realized I was most centered and happy when I just accepted what was and flowed with what life has to offer. No questioning, no trying to derive meaning from shit, no being on a quest for truth.

I have learned that when one goes about actively and aggressively seeking truth in their life that is exactly when they are least likely to see it. The simple elegant truths of life and existence only reveal themselves to those that are living life and not questioning it.

Yes there's suffering and "bad" things out there, but it's all part of life. Who the hell ever said that spiritual life was life devoid of suffering? Usually suffering is part and parcel of a spiritual existence.

You make a lot of assumptions and have a lot of idealistic ideas that have no bearing in real life and existence but don't recognize them as such.
Keep with your current line of thought and it will only lead you to frustration and depression.

One final thought, and I know you will hate it, but don't even bother to reply to it because it is true and no amount of mental gymnastics on your part is going to change it.
You are very young and still have a lot to learn about life and what true spirituality is.
I don't intend that as an insult, it just is the way it is.
I've said it before and I'll say it again;
There are some things that you only learn with increased years of life, plain and simple.

If you don't agree with me on that, then lets discuss it again after you have experienced the unfathomable joy of holding your firstborn seconds after they have come into the world, or the sorrow after you have laid both your parents to rest.

There is a lot of the human condition that you simply just don't comprehend because you haven't experienced it yet, as with me. There is much I have yet to learn and live.

People will say LSD gives you insight and knowledge, yada,yada. It does, to a certain degree, but it is still no substitute for life experience.

You have a good start because you are aware of and sensitive to some of the spiritual aspects of humanity. Just don't make the error of searching so hard for meaning that you don't participate in the grand play that is life.
That is the great miracle and wonder. Life, warts and all is a wondrous thing.

Also bear in mind that the biggest failing of a lot of religious and spiritualist type teaching is that they try to make a separation between things of the spirit and things of the flesh. No "truth" can encompass such a separation. The universe just doesn't work that way.

The First Law of Thermodynamics says that there can never truly be a separation of spirit (energy) and flesh (matter);

The first law of thermodynamics is often called the Law of Conservation of Energy. This law suggests that energy can be transferred from one system to another in many forms. Also, it can not be created or destroyed. Thus, the total amount of energy available in the Universe is constant. Einstein's famous equation (written below) describes the relationship between energy and matter:

E = mc2
In the equation above, energy (E) is equal to matter (m) times the square of a constant (c). Einstein suggested that energy and matter are interchangeable. His equation also suggests that the quantity of energy and matter in the Universe is fixed.



The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that disorder,decay and suffering are an integral part of the universe;

Heat cannot be transfered from a colder to a hotter body. As a result of this fact of thermodynamics, natural processes that involve energy transfer must have one direction, and all natural processes are irreversible. This law also predicts that the entropy of an isolated system always increases with time. Entropy is the measure of the disorder or randomness of energy and matter in a system. Because of the second law of thermodynamics both energy and matter in the Universe are becoming less useful as time goes on. Perfect order in the Universe occurred the instant after the Big Bang when energy and matter and all of the forces of the Universe were unified.

If you cannot see how those laws apply to the topics at hand, then you have more learning to do.

 

But can't there be an end to suffering? Or is it just simply not true? Like what was the Buddha talking about when he spoke of "the end of suffering"? What does that MEAN? truley? I would like to know. Cause if it's simply not real, then fuck you to the Buddha...

 

The cessation of suffering is indeed possible, but not because of a lack of external undesirable circumstances.
The end of suffering does not come from without but from within. Suffering ends when suffering is understood.

 

In truth Buddhism doesn't teach an end to suffering, just an emotional detachment from it. As long as we exist in a material universe, there will be "suffering". Kind of like "just ignore it and it will go away". Just ignore and refute your "desires" and suffering will cease. What bullshit! I'm sure the Buddha still got diarrhea if he ate some bad food regardless of his desires or lack thereof.

In my opinion Buddhism fails more so than some other religions because it wants to deny aspects of life that are real and needed.

True "enlightenment" if you want to call it that is when a person learns to accept and revel in the glories of existence, and understands the pleasure and pain are but different sides of the same coin.

As long as you have the mind set that suffering is "bad" you will never know peace, only in accepting life as it is can a person find peace and joy. Suffering isn't going anywhere.

 

and accepted and celebrated as part of life.

 

True.
But doesn't it seem to you that if we are able and willing to accept it and celebrate it, then it ceases to be suffering?

 

So if suffering prevails, then Ecstasy must prevail as well. As a personal choice, can't you choose to sort of navigate in the direction of ecstatic experience? I think it's just as real a possibility as intense suffering is. As you said, they're flip sides of the same coin.

I guess what i'm alluding to is Tantra. That seems to be the latest glimmer in this direction of ecstasy that has appeared for me.

And then, as a side note, it's strange how you have people that choke themselves while masturbating to achieve ultimate pleasure through ultimate pain. Talk about flip sides of the same coin...

 

Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "choking the chicken" doesn't it.

I wonder what they do when they "spank the monkey"

 

In a sense, yes. But the suffering doesn't change externally, just our perception and reaction to it does.