The position of woman in islam

well some get a good beating if they dont and risk being killed I have a friend who was thrown out of a moving car , you have cases of girls killed by their own parents for the way they dress .
there are sites for honour killing victims in the west .

and I have friends arabs who have lived as islamic women in the middle east ,I have one friend whose a saudi women who cant leave, women in saudi cant drive a car or have a independant passport so she can leave the country .

she thinks the religion is nonsense but what can you do my advice is just pretend you do believe and I think thats what lots of thinking arabs do .

really one of the things about islam is you cant really tell who believes what

"Saudi Arabia’s male guardianship of women and policies of sex segregation stop women from enjoying their basic rights, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. Saudi women often must obtain permission from a guardian (a father, husband, or even a son) to work, travel, study, marry, or even access health care

The authorities essentially treat adult women like legal minors who are not entitled to authority over their lives and well-being. Saudi women are similarly denied the legal right to make even trivial decisions for their children. Women cannot open bank accounts for children, enroll them in school, obtain school files, or travel with their children without written permission from the child’s father.

Saudi women are prevented from accessing government agencies that have not established female sections unless they have a male representative. The need to establish separate office spaces for women is a disincentive to hiring female employees, and female students are often relegated to unequal facilities with unequal academic opportunities.

Male guardianship over adult women also contributes to their risk of confronting family violence, making it difficult for survivors of violence to avail themselves of protection or redress. Social workers, physicians, and lawyers told Human Rights Watch about the near impossibility of removing guardianship even from male guardians who are abusive.

And even where permission from a male guardian is not mandatory or stipulated under government guidelines, some officials will ask for it. Despite national regulations to the contrary, some hospitals require a guardian’s permission to allow women to be admitted, agree to medical procedures for themselves or their children, or be discharged.

Officials do not always follow limitations on the power of guardians imposed recently by the government. Despite an Interior Ministry decision allowing women over 45 to travel without permission, airport officials continue to ask all women for written proof their guardian has allowed them to travel. Travel restrictions can also be humiliating for many women.

Fatma A., a 40-year-old Saudi woman living in Riyadh, cannot board a plane without written permission from her son, her legal guardian. “My son is 23 years old and has to come all the way from the Eastern Province to give me permission to leave the country,” she told Human Rights Watch.

A Saudi woman’s access to justice is also severely constrained. Women continue to have trouble filing a court case or even being heard in court without a legal guardian. Women are required to wear a full-face veil (niqab) in court and be accompanied by a male relative able to verify their identity. Saudi Arabia has established no minimum age of criminal responsibility for girls, while the authorities generally decree puberty as the threshold for treating children as adults.

“It’s astonishing that the Saudi government denies adult women the right to make decisions for themselves but holds them criminally responsible for their actions at puberty,” said Deif. “For Saudi women, reaching adulthood brings no rights, only responsibilities.”

By failing to eliminate these discriminatory practices, the Saudi government is failing in its commitment to guarantee women and girls their rights to education, employment, freedom of movement, health, and equality in marriage. In doing so, the Saudi government ignores not only international law but even elements of the Islamic legal tradition that support equality and full legal capacity for women.

Human Rights Watch calls on Saudi Arabia to take immediate action to address the human rights abuses resulting from male guardianship policies. The Saudi government should abide by its international obligations and dismantle this grossly discriminatory system. The king should establish an oversight mechanism to ensure that government agencies no longer request permission from a guardian to allow adult women to work, travel, study, marry, receive health care, or access any public service. The authorities should establish female sections or other accommodations in every government office and courtroom in order to ensure women have equal access to every level of government. "

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/04/21/saudia18598.htm

 

Islamic countries like Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan will never reform within our lifetimes. Should a woman be fortunate enough to emigrate to Western Europe, Canada or the United States, with or without family, it should be within her power to break the stranglehold of Islamic sexist oppression. Under Canadian law there are mechanisms, such as safe houses, for fleeing a male extortionist, whether or not he pretends to be a loving husband.

These turkeys (Moslems) can do what they want in their own countries, but when they come to the west, they will have to live as free men and women. That means burn the burkhas.

 

Muslim women in the west just can't say I'm not going to wear a scarf. Every couple of weeks you read about some Muslim woman being killed by her father or brothers for dating the wrong guy or some dress code violation.

 

I'd just like to know why it is that in the Christianity forum posters are banned from quoting the Bible whilst Islamist quotes from the koran are allowed here?
Seems a bit un-balanced to me.

 

um, they are. no offense, but are muslims not the ones behind 9/11, al-qaeda, the taliban, the persecution of women (etc.) in so much of the middle east? you can't choose which followers of your faith represent it.

 

Just curious, and not looking to start a fight, but are men subject to honor killings?

 

That is because women are more like possessions, not so much a person. Women are almost haram(forbidden) in Islam, but Muslim men want a place to shoot their loads.

 

So, that's a no?

 

The practice of the Sharia is for the sake of equality which is receivable beyond all Consciousness from God. If the values seem like that of the unfulfilled justice that Freedom can accommodate (I just want to say This for the Islam world) it is because of either the aberration of the Western preferences for 'winning at Secularism above all else' or that freedom is not the point of anything other than the authorities of the particular Muslim government NOT WORKING.

The flower girl seemed a little outmoded in a dissapointed world of past oppressors and emperors. (I cannot smile here for I am at this point superior in intellect).

 

Consequentially Iran defends it's Sharia through avoiding Civil War by internationally threatening the region (bla, bla); Sudan keeps peace with it's neighbours by fostering it's own civil War of the undetermined genecide hopeless of the possible Sharia.

Warned Ya'.

 

Here's the goverment's office of travels view on women in Saudi Arabia:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1012.html#entry_requirements

 

This was better. This presumed the secularist promise of not having to belong as property or as a woman and a child to a real man. The real man knows that God is merciful and will mean justice of equality in a real situation of Jurisprudence.

However, the claim for identity of the human involvement makes the heard into a violating indictment of failed promises before the wedding.

personally I think that Saudi Arabia is at this point in time amazingly Christian cockamamee in it's hurd integration conscience.

Let us be SURREAL.

 

Honor rapings and killings are another way women are controlled in this religion of hate

 

The need of Moslem men to lord it over Moslem women is puzzling. Are they that insecure? Do they secretly feel so inferior that they have to dominate? I feel sorry for them.

As any woman can tell you, the society in which woman is man's equal in every way has never existed yet. (Possible exception, some obscure Polynesian culture I'm not aware of.) I am a male, and I would feel quite comfortable there.

 

Most of the posts I've seen on this thread are from the point of view of judging an eastern culture by western standards. Arabs and westerners are from different worlds. it is not our place as westerners to judge the cultural practices of another region.

However, when people of eastern cultures move to western countries they must conform to the cultural expectations of that country and abandon certain practices which are deemed unacceptbale in western society.

 

But does that entail changing one's beliefs about the nature of Reality and science? Science from the west now teaches that the average Iraqi or Aghani that he has no ''will'' but only fortitude for the talent applied for Evolving gods. Close communication between emigrant and the proper citizen in these countries is dissolved for the disbelief of the Reason we all fight about.

We fight for reasons sought in dishonour over one's demanded welfare and lust.


Couldn't we fight for good reasons like breaking the laws about holiness and simple jealousy of our children?


A sad meditation while eating hospital food.

 

It's not about changing anybody's beliefs, its just a matter of people living up their social expectations in order to keep the peace. If someone is going to relocate, they need to abide by the rules of their new society. That goes for foriegn Muslims coming here or Westerners going to an Islamic land.

As the saying goes, "When in Rome, Do as the Romans". Newcomers have to be willing to abide by the social rules of the people who have been there longer than they have, if that doesn't happen, societies break down and cultures collapse.

 

The morality police don't just operate in Islamic countries.

I was reading an article this morning that women have been assaulted in Jerusalem recently by the Jewish version of these religious fanatics.

One lady for wearing a red blouse. Another for refusing to sit in the back of the bus.


x

 

The Koran clearly says that women are property but the Apostle Paul says in the New Testament that God considers Jews,Gentiles,Male and Female to be equal. Paul also said that husbands were to treat their wives with kindness.

In Muslim countries a father kills his daughter if she is raped instead of killing the rapist. Yeah makes a lot of sense.