So, are you saying that your friend was not gorgeous before she lost a bunch of weight? There are many people out there that find overweight people to be beautiful as they are. In Italy there is even a beauty contest that is based on the size of the woman. There are so many now days that are starving themselves, binging and throwing up afterwards, or having weight loss surgeries in order to gain the ideal thin and be considered beautiful, gorgeous, etc. Many of the people that go to these lengths DIE! Are they beautiful then? Does dying trying to be thin make you more beautiful and more of an architype of what should be normal society than dying later in life because you were overweight? I have a great-aunt that has been overweight her ENTIRE life. She has been on many diets and exercise programs and never could get the weight to go. She is now close to 90 years old and has led a very full life, despite the fact that most people (especially based on the response to this post) would think that she should have been put out to pasture long ago because she couldn't control herself. And just as a side line, her husband of well over 50 years was thin as a rake. The other thing people don't seem to ever consider is MEDICATION! For instance, I had a friend who was from Toronto and he suffered from EXTREME depression. He was put on anti-depressants. The depression caused him to be very inactive and he ended up eating things not as healthy for him because of convienence as he couldn't muster the energy to take care of himself and cook properly. He was switched to different medications many times, and though he had a good metabolism certain meds made him balloon up and one med in particular made him put on about 100lbs in less than a year. But, it made his depression more bareable. So, before you go and judge someone because of how they look, think about what might be behind that. As a big/overweight/fat/obese girl myself, I see the stares, leers, and get the jeers EVERY TIME I step out of the house. I was told when I was a young child I was too fat even though at the time I honestly ate less than most of my thin friends. The constant pressure put on me at that age, made me start sneaking food, as I was put on diet after diet after diet. When I was in kindergarten my mother packed me salads for fuck sake! But still to this day, I have trouble with my weight, I think in part, because of the fact that so much pressure was put on me all my life to be thin. No matter what I did whether I walked miles, swam miles, biked, etc. If I ate only apples, if I ate no carbs, if I drank slim-fast or went on Deal-A-Meal. I could lose a bit of weight and then it just stopped and sure enough within less than a year I usually gained back the weight with then some. Those of you that say that fat people are just disgusting etc ... I'd love to see what YOU look like. Honestly... are those of you that have said things like that some great adonis or something. Should we sculpt you and put you up as the national/world symbol of what all of us should attain to be? Honestly. Get over it. Some people are fat, some people aren't. When the Ice Age comes ... we'll see who survives.
I don't think anyone judges out of concern but only out of condition. I applaud your stance on this. I just found this forum thinking people would be open-minded and such, but after reading this thread and topic well I certainly can now see who the open-minded ones are and who the close-minded, go with the flow, if you aren't thin enough to be on Heat or Nuts magazine you aren't worth shit types are now too. Thanks for standing up for those of us who are Big and Beautiful, despite whatever certain close-minded idiots think. Smartie's friend there, I feel bad for her, cause her own friend continued to propogate the ideology to her that when she was fat she wasn't beautiful. So now what happens if in a few years time she puts on weight again? What if she has a kid and can't get off the baby fat? He's one more person that has told her that she is more beautiful thin than fat? I've known people that have wanted to do serious bodily harm to themselves because of weight and the reactions they got from people - myself included. I pity those that are so petty and shallow in life that they can not see beyond a few extra stone to the real heart of a person. Women are supposed to be curvacious, voluptuous, and have wide hips for child-bearing. They aren't supposed to be twigs with no curves. Yes, there are extremes on either side, but even if someone is super-obese, there will be someone that loves them and think they are the most beautiful thing on the earth, even if people like Smartie don't.
Well I would like to be pointed to a single post in this thread where someone was seriously insulting towards people who are overweight. There was plenty of concern about health risks, some noticing of the way people automatically judge, but I saw no insults.
Neither did I dude, that's why i said "reading between the lines". Ultimately there's no sensible reason why one should be judged for their weight, and that's what would be happening if "overweight" people were taxed, being judged by those who percieve themselves to be better than them.
Ok, I admit, no one actually said that. But, well, as someone who is overweight ... reading not all, and actually I'd say a minority of the posts ... it does seem like many people may feel that way, but didn't actually say it. And well, after being told my entire life that I needed to get thinner (i even had one aunt who was so twisted that everytime I came over she'd have me get on the scale so she could see if I'd gained anything or lost anything ... but then at dinner time would tell me to clean my plate and ask me if I wanted more food ... then of course would critizise because i was too fat and needed to lose weight) when people start diatribing about how people should look, if they are unhealthy, not as beautiful, not thin enough, etc, etc ... it DOES more often than not boil down to the fact that most people do find fat people disgusting. Even as someone who is overweight, I even find myself falling into the same prejudice when I see someone bigger than myself. I will find myself thinking things like "god, hope I don't look like that" or "geez, I'd want to kill myself, etc". And I want to take a drill and lobotomize that portion of my brain that thinks like that. I want to drill out the part of me that refuses to have a full length mirror in my home because I don't want to see what all of me looks like. I want to scourge out that part that cringes inside when my husband tells me that he thinks I'm lovely and "so soft." I don't think anyone who is thin understands what it is like to be overweight and the constant obsession that can be formed about what people will think of you. And I know, there are those of you that will say "well you did it to yourself" or "if you just workout and eat less you'll be ok" but sometimes it isn't quite that easy, as on bad days I have a hard time getting out of bed even due to depression. Going out in public freaks me out so much I couldn't take a walk somewhere if my life depended on it. Unless I start eating dust (which is relatively low in fat) and then maybe I could be a "normal" weight. But, then again, if you don't have health problems other than being overweight, why is it bad? As I said, I have known many people to lead full, happy lives, well into their 80s or 90s and have been overweight. I have also known people so worried about their weight they ran every day or didn't eat properly, and they died when they were in their 30s. Ultimately, no one can really say what is best for the public as a whole. Every individual is different, what will kill one person, would be great for another. The undercurrent though of sizeism however is as bad as racism or sexism, or any of those "isms." I mean, I have dreads, there are some that are going to think I'm trouble cause of that, but I'm not. You may wear a hoodie when going out, and there are LOADS of people that will automatically assume you are up to no good. But that isn't the case. These are things we can change, hair/clothes, etc. But we choose not to, cause we are who we are. Yes, if I could instantly drop 10 stone or whatever (which still wouldn't make me "thin") I would just cause it would make my life easier. However, at this point in my life, I am truly happy with how I am. I do think I'm beautiful, but I still have all those nagging thoughts that have been forced into my brain from birth persistently telling me that I'm not as good as I could be. Much like Smartie's (and sorry for picking on you so much) friend there, it's as if when she was fat, she just wasn't as good as she is now. Those friends I've had that went through Gastric Bypass Surgery always had trouble with this issue, as once they had lost 100 lbs or what not, they'd go around the same people they were always around and instead of having 2 people come up to them to talk to them now 10 or 15 people would. And to them, nothing about what made them them had changed. They were the same people, but because of a size difference, other peoples perception of them had changed. I honestly wouldn't want to know someone that couldn't accept me as I am today, for no matter if I'm a size 2 or a size 32 I am just me.
oops before anyone jumps at me *ducks to avoid any mud* i did read EVERY single post ... just was saying only a minority of them seemed to be biased against those that are overweight that is all
this thread has been bothering me for some time... as throughout the ages men have found (generally speaking) slimmer women to be more attractive. and despite the occasional big is beautiful beauty contest... i think we should be in agreement that most men like the shape of slim athletic women... i was thinking about this... and it struck me.. could it be genetic coding... is it possible that we still find beauty in a survivalk of the fittist kind of way.. and if a wman is slim and fit she can keep up with the migrating tribe... whereas an over weight woman may be seen as a migratory liability.
A truth I'm sure, this would be tempered though when choosing a mate by your attractivity banding, that or power.
how do you figure that slimmer women have been more attractive throughout the ages, when most fertility symbols that are ancient have been of larger, voluptuous (or fat) women with wide hips and large breasts. larger women are seen as nurturers, mothers, and symbols of fertility. i'm not talking about someone who is so huge they can't have sex anymore, but the typical fertility goddesses of ancient and even some current tribes. Here are some exampes of fertility goddesses: This is a Babylonian Fertility goddess: A primoridal Fertility goddesses: A Celtic Fertility Goddess: A Fertility Goddess from 30000 - 25000 B.C. (back when survival of the fittest was even more important than it is today) : Yes ... I can definitely see where these are all fit, trim, skinny women that are the center of man's desire. Yes, you can find a few fertiity goddesses that are etched in stone from egypt that are very thin, but MOST of the fertility goddesses, which were considered to be man's most desirable image of a woman by today's standards would be considered fat, obese, possibly even morbidly obese. But, then again, there are still a lot of men that like having "more cushion for the pushin'." I think you should do more reading up on what mankind has TRULY preferred over the course of the entire existance of the world, and not just what has come into vogue as fashion has permeated society.
most women put on substantial weight around the thighs and arse when they are pregnant.... and with the little pot belly and heavy,full breasts, these statuettes suggest recent post partum, rather than big eaters... which makes sense as they are fertility gods... not gods of eating too much and doing no exercise.
I'm sure being able to run away from danger is a survival pressure which impacts evolution, but it's unlikely that would be a factor in sexual selection which is what we're talking about here. I think we are naturally attracted to those people who look healthy, and who have the best chances of succesfully rearing our children. Women who are strong enough to survive childbirth and live into old age, men who are able to provide for their offspring over the long term. There are many variations across cultures in what a sexually attractive mate should look like, but it's generally within a range which looks healthy and reasonably strong. You'd be hard pressed to find cultures who generally go for either the morbidly obese or the near-to-death-by-starvation looks. Historically I think many cultures have gone for slightly larger figures than is current in our society. A more fatty figure might have been desirable in some cultures because this is an indication that the person is getting more than enough food and would for instance survive the next lean winter from their fat stores. As the risk of death by starvation becomes less of a problem our cultural tastes may change.
Yes, and this is the point I've been trying to make all along, although obviously some people are ignorantly biased. What was that famous quote "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." My husband for instance, finds all the typical women placed as symbols of beauty these days to be hideous, because they are much too skinny and many of them are so skinny they are not healthy. I just watched a program on Discovery the other day called Fat Fiancees, about people in Uganda, how it is a sign of prosperity for their wife to be overweight. And, this wasn't just pleasantly plump, but overweight. They spend 6 months "fattening" the girl up before her wedding, and then she spends the next year being "fattened up" some more in order to attain what they perceive as a figure of beauty. Her new husband said on the program that over the next year it would be ideal for him if she could gain at minumum 50 pounds, but he'd be even happier if she gained 100-200 pounds. This topic is near to my heart, as my previous posts should indicate. But, I (and i'm not talking to you lithium) refuse to comment anymore towards people who are obviously ignorant or are just intentionally creating an atmosphere of playing devil's advocate. And for anyone to think that the fertility goddess of the past, and even some current present cultures were just suffering from being pregant or post pregnancy related weight gain is completely ubsurd. I could have posted even more pictures to prove this point, but there is a limit on images. I personally have never felt it is healthy to be extremely obese, and don't condone those that practice force feeding and such. However, I would never in a million years say that someone who is overweight is less beautiful because they are overweight. Maybe I personally would not be attracted to a man that is severly overweight, but I know plenty of people that would be. I also know that many would consider myself to be severely overweight, but I know that I myself am beautiful, and there are many men (other than just my husband) who have thought so as well. So for someone to say that an individual like myself would just be dissmissed as ugly or an unfit partner or sexual being is so absurdly ignorant of what a vast number of people do actually think. Just cause it's not what you see in Heat magazine or in Nuts or Zoo doesn't mean that what is protrayed is the way EVERYONE in society feels. I also must admit, I find it rather ironic that the person who seems to be the most outspoken in this forum against people who are fat being beautiful by any standards has a freaking screen name named after a sweet! I guess though, that unless you have a high metabolisim or are going to workout obsessively you don't deserve to eat sweets.
now now... settle down... contrast is necessary for healthy debate... i was merely giving thoughts and points of view... if my comments insulted anyone then i'm sorry... but this is not a playgroup... its a free speech forum. my remarks are never directed at anyone and they are relevent to thread well firstly this indicates that they obviously hold wealth in such high regard that they see symbols of it as beuatiful. but then so do many people in our culture so thats not so strange... for instance... in our culture wealth generally means you can afford a personal trainer... and so the physiology of wealth becomes slim and athletic.. not large. also this is another example of men forcing woen to look the way they want, just reversed from this culture. as it was the husband who said " iwant her to gain 100-200lbs, not the woman saying she wants to... this makes me beleive that they hold their own image of finicail standing in higher regard than the health of their wives. it would make far more sense to me that a firtility symbol be pregnant, than just overwieght... and further more... just because it is a figure of worship doesn't mean that that is what is considered popularly attractive... krisna is a bright blue hamaphridite... i cant imagine that being the pick of the day for breeding.. or ganeshes has an elephant head.. i dont see any indians shagging elephants. is that becuase you find them less beautiful? i also dont hink that obese women or unhealthily skinny women are particularly attractive...nor do i condone the media involvement on dictation of size... but a thin, fit women is more popularly attractive than larger women... it is true that in the past larger women have been seen as more beautiful ( all the renaissance paintings for example) but this too was just the fashion of the day... had i been born 400 years ago i would still find a thin woman more appealing. just because it was fashionable then.. it doesn't mean we should adhere to it now... it was also fashionable to have black slaves.. should we also have them now. times change and with them so do fashions and the cultures that follow them. hmmmm... getting personal now are we. thats not very nice... and you dont have to exersice obsesively... if calories out is greater than or equal to calories in... then you maintain weight.
The problem with this assertion is that it's bollocks. Simply not true in any way, shape or form. Unless you're elitist of course.
Hahaha, you are digging yourself into a hole here mate. Face it, "fat" was considered to be the most fertile and therefore healthy form for a woman.
You can believe that if you like, but please don't go associating your beliefs with factuality, it's a nonsense. You are wrong, as all the evidence of history and culture would suggest.
