the pledge and anti-war

Alright, I go to a public school that about two years after 9/11 in my eight grade year (this year) we started doing compulserary pledge of allegiance everyday. My peeve is that after I started educating myself on America's corruptions and all that I've decided that I do not want to recite the plege anymore. For not reciting the plege, you get punishments like in-house, write ups, phone calls, or public humilation. I would go to my mother, but she is as apatheic as this generation and would just say, "do it, it's just some words". I have trouble speaking up for myself and I'm wondering what is some things that I could back up when I'm being called lazy or un-American for not reciting the pledge.

Second, I'm wondering about what it means about being anti-war. It being anti-war just condeming the "wrong" wars (Iraqi) and having no problem with the "good" wars (like WWII or the Revoltuionary War). Is it about wars in the present and future or past, present, and future. What could I back up when it's argued that I wouldn't have this or that cause of this war? What could I back up when somebody says that I don't care for the soldiders who died in these wars?

I'm very confused and my mind is very virgin (I'm 14 and pretty stupid) so...please help
Thanks, peacelizard...

 

Keep refusing to recite the words.
Educate others on the subject and see if they do the same.
Good luck with that.

Fight the power!

 

You go to a public school, right? They can't "punish" you for not saying the pledge. It's illegal. In 1943 the high court stated: "No official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion." Throw that in their faces, and while you're at it call them petty officials. Just for fun.

But seriously, that's crap! Also if they think it's just a bunch of words, then why does it matter if you say them or not?

 

thanks.

That helps. I didn't know of that law about the pledge and all that. To my school the pledge is cherished cause everybody (or the everybody I know) are consevative Bush supporting and pro-war or closet Bush supporting conservative demorcrats. My mother really doesn't care about the plegde she thinks it's a bunch of words that she has maybe forgotten. But she doesn't want me to get in-house for these words cause I'm supposed to keep a clean slate for the two more weeks I am in school. And I'm sure my little stand will carry on cause the screw-ups with pretend that they get what I'm saying just to carry on with pissing the teacher off. But at least it'll catch on!
Not standing is insobornation (I think I spelled that right) for not following a teacher's orders and accounts for in-house. But, hell, I'm going to fight the Man for my rights!

thanks again...

 

Ok, I stopped saying the pledge in seventh grade. It was at that point in my life that I realized it was mostly bullshit and I didn't necessarily support the ideas behind the words.

I was given some crap about it but basically it boiled down to this. Stand up, yeah I know you could care less but just stand. You do not need to put your hand over your heart... although you might if the audience doesn't know about your views and is hostile. You do not need to say the words... if you want you can even mumble something along with everyone (too quietly to be heard) and they will think you are obeying.

The stand up thing is something they can enforce if you are not religiously opposed (and have a religious tradition established like the JW's). I took a lot of heat when I first stopped saying the pledge but after a couple of weeks it died down. If you just stand 99.9999% of the time no one will even notice that you aren't doing the rest.

 

man, if any school forced my kid to say the pledge, student-led prayer, or even sing "good morning dear teacher" against his constitutionally-protected wishes, i would raise high holy hell all over the place! in-house suspension, my ass! this is why i homeschool. i'm going to teach my kid the earth pledge. if he ever ends up in public school, he can say that if he wants to, and let them try and stop him!

as a parent and educator, i fuckin' hate the socially-predatory, brain-washing, conformist, prisons that are most public schools.

 

fight, don't give up. if they punish you for not reciting the pledge, its against the law. if i were you, i'd go talk to the principal/headmaster and demand that all your punishments that have been recorded on your school recored be taken off. you would have to cite that law when you have your talk with the principal, but it would clear all your "wrong doings". and if they will not take it off, i'd follow up with a huge lawsuit. thats what i would do. but don't let them push you around, stand up for yourself.

 

I discovered this week, that some time after the eighth(?) circuit court declared the pledge unconstitutional in schools, that our elementary school began to require students to recite the pledge daily. This was brought to my attention during the sixth grade graduation ceremony when I was the only one without hand over heart pledging allegience. Just how mandantory I don't know. Just exactly what they would do with a refusal is unknown.

It's too bad your mom doesn't stand with you in your descision to abstain from pledging. I would be in their face if my daughter refused and was punished. Stand by your feelings.

 

If only all parents (or the majority) were like you!

 

Do you just stand there silently or do you actually bring attention to yourself? I stand but I don't say the pledge and no one at my school really cares (and I'm from Texas, so that's saying alot). As far as being anti-war goes, I'm an anti-war-by-circumstance type of person. I'm against the Iraq war because there was no immediate threat. I'm not too sure I could say the same about WWII however. As for the humanitarian intervention argument for going into war, I say give the UN military alot more power so there can be an international military intervention force. That's really what the world needs--an army made up of all different nationalities to police the world's conflicts. I don't think the US should be the one to do it, since we already spend enough on the military, plus I don't trust our government to do a thurough job.

 

I am also in the eigth grade, and have recently thought to myself why am i saying this? Not just because i dont believe in the words, but i dont believe that i should have to salute the flag everyday, and also where you recite "under god", that isn't working for me cuz i'm pagan. But i still stand to show my respect to the flag and to the people which honor the "pledge of alligance."
About the anti-war i'm totally there with the present war, but with WW2 there was somthing important that we were fighting for, it wasn't just america being greedy like they are now trying to take iraqs oil.

Namaste,
Malandoris

-wherever you go, only leave footsteps-

 

Thanks fer the answers!

I just stand quietly when the pledge goes on, and don't talk. As for the anti-war thing, I think I got it straight. I'm glad to have others on my side when it comes to the pledge. And if I get questioned by those petty officials (teachers), I'll make sure to throw that law in their faces.

 

Yeah i hear you man... i dont say the pledge but my homeroom teacher will give me looks and sometimes he will say "Emily say the pledge" and i do it out of respect for him..... last year in my old homeroom my friend Shawn refused to say the pledge and the teacher actually threw him out for the entire year and he had homeroom in the office every morning... i just love our *freedoms in this country




definitions:

*freedom- a bunch of lies and bull shit that we allegedly have but arent allowed to actually use!!
and personally i dont believe that any war is a "Good" war ... there are different ways then killing mass amounts of people to get your point across.

 

Patriotism can be a funny thing. I consider myself very patriotic, and for that reason have always stood for the Pledge. I look over and see a classmate not standing (I'm out of high school and all that) and i always knew that the reason I stood was because my classmate who believed diffirently, according to our laws, could not be required to do so. Then some teacher comes along and gives him a hard time for not standing. This teacher, who assuredly considers themself patriotic, just misses the whole point. this is the dogmatic type of patriotism, which I really detest. It reminds me of some idiot in Iraq trying to run my tank down head-on in a freakin Toyota because some religious leader with political motives brainwashed him into confusing suicide with martyrdom. I'm pretty solid in my thinking that going into a situation that will assuredly result in your death, by choice, that won't do any darn good is just suicide, as well as idiotic.
Anyways sorry I rambled, but these teachers you're talking about just don't get it. And they're ruining it for everyone else.

 

You're not rambling, jt, you said exactly what I wanted to say. I pledge my allegience to this Republic, whether under God or not. And the basis of this Republic guarantees freedom for all, so if you don't want to recite the pledge, you shouldn't have to. The pledge is a little more than words, if the teachers were listening to themselves they might catch that.

Of course I hope the people who don't recite the pledge still love this country enough to not try to destroy it, but reciting the pledge isn't going to convince me they do one way or the other. When I recite the pledge, I refer to the way this country is supposed to be ran, not necessarily the way it is. To me, not reciting is not a form of protest. But for some it is, and I respect that.

As for wars, PL, there ain't no good ones. Anti-war means we expect the heads of government to do what they're supposed to do, instead of waiting for situations to build to war, or like they do now, start wars for their own fun & profit. Wars are bad, Mmkay? We'd just like to see it all end, and not have to worry about it again.

 

UN military intervention force? The squirrel likey!!!

 

check this out.

call the American Civil Liberties Union in your area and they'll pwn them for you.

 

People people you all need to calm down lol

Personally imo were all humans living on land and countrys are just human made and are cause for many wars but thats just my opinion as everyone has their own beliefs.

If someone doesn't want to pledge to the land/constitution they live on and under thats their own choice and they should be allowed that freedom.If someone trys to breach that right from you know that they are in the wrong and not yourself.

 

Well, maybe it's because home-schooled children usually have their GED level equivalent (I'm not sure what they take, actually) several years ahead of the public school kids, and usually come out with more knowledge! My home-schooled friends were in college full-time by the time they were 16, and were much more advanced in their studies than my public school friends. That's just one situation, I know, but I'm willing to bet it's fairly typical.
(Even though the conservative xtian homeschoolers, I think, grow up rather brainwashed, if I may say so... Women are submissive homemakers, etc...)