The People Don't Want War,

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Spagelo, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. Spagelo

    Spagelo Members

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    "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

    - Hermann Wilhelm Göring at the Nuremberg trials.


    What matters now, what is relevant now is the particular truth in the quote above which was stated by him and documented during his trial. Look at that! That is the truth, I can give you many examples where it applies, I can give you the American War on Terror and 9/11. Think about it, it fits absolutely perfectly. The US government told it's citizens that we were being attacked, therefore we must go to war. The people who did not want that, the pacifists, were denounced as anti-American. The US military goes to fight another war that doesn't exist, many more die. War is horrible! The people can live without it, it's just fucking politics with bloodshed. Look at this shit were in! We fight, we fight, we fight, left and right. And for what? Many fight for stupid religious reasons, fight for land, for resources, for power, for money, for greed, for hate. War is where the old and bitter trick the young and stupid in to murdering each other. Oligarchies, absolute power corrupts absolutely. The only time fighting can be justified is if you're actually defending yourselves against those who would hurt, murder, and invade your home, and so forth, like the Palestinians against Benjamin Netanyahu's regime, or the North Vietnamese against the US. We fight, we kill, that's just a-fuckin'-okay with so many in this world of ours, and some people will actually try to bring others down and hurt them for loving and telling others to love.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  2. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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  3. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    The need for debate

    That is why debate is so important for the preservation of a free society – any political group that wants to bamboozle people into accepting its leadership starts with trying to stifle and/or shut down debate before forbidding it and making it a crime.

    There can be differing routes – in the case of the National Socialists it began by having thugs at the back of their meetings who would beat up anyone who raised any dissent - later when they got control of the state dissenters where sent off to camps to be ‘re-educated’ and later just murdered.

    But in other cases it can be done through social convention, there is a ‘common sense’ that is little questioned and from which dissent is frowned on, most people want to belong and bowing to the social conventions is a way of being accepted.

    But this can be re-enforced - in the next post I’ll show how this developed within the US.
     
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  4. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    The suppression of left wing thought in US society

    Unions that tried to improve the conditions of some of the poorest in society often found themselves the object of state repression from the very beginning. Demands for such things as an eight hour day were ignored or suppressed with force by private police forces, state militias and even the National Guard, there was the suppression of public meetings or free speech, the imprisonment of people without charge, many people including women and children were beaten up and others killed.

    Also it was difficult for left wing groups to break into the political mainstream. The Democrats and Republicans have often joined together to exclude other political groups or parties, since these are in the main right wing in outlook it has meant that the groups most often excluded have been left wing.
    (That is why many people in the US don’t vote for what they believe in or want but just to keep out something that they see as worse.)

    Against such opposition it is amazing that in 1912 the US Socialist Party had over a thousand elected officials in local government and that Eugene Debs got a million votes in that years presidential race (6 per cent of the vote, the envy of many socialist around the world at the time). It was able to get over thirty mayors into power as many legislators and had large numbers of loyal votes in many urban areas. It was a growing force.

    But the repression of trade union groups and left wing political ideas continued.

    For opposing WWI Debs was arrested and convicted to ten years in prison, from where he stood for President in 1920 receiving 913,664 votes (Nader got about half that in 2004 and Perot about double in 1992)

    Another socialist opponent of the war was also sentence to prison Victor Berger however he did get elected to Congress but was refused entry this caused a re-election that he again won, but he was still refused entry.

    In other areas like New York openly socialist representatives to the city and state - who had been democratically elected - were also barred from their posts.
    Around this time many states passed laws banning the display of red flags (a communist and socialist emblem) and the federal government set up the General Intelligence Division headed by none other than J. Edger Hoover to monitor (harass) left wing ‘radicals’.

    This harassment turned into repression during the late 1930’s with the establishment of the committee for ‘Un-American Activities’. This was set up to root out people whose view didn’t conform to what was thought of as American (basically thought policemen) and what the US political elite that had a grip on the system came to see those with left wing views as un-American.

    It made it illegal to advocate or teach such ideas or help disseminate them in any way also any group that the government didn’t like could be targeted and forced to give the names and address of its members and the FBI illegally was authorised to tap phones and mail open peoples mail.

    This suppression was stepped up after the war, and to give an indication of the mentality of those in charge of the ‘un-American’ purge this is a quote from Albert Canwell who was chair of the California state committee –

    “If someone insists there is discrimination against Negroes in this country, or that there is inequality of wealth, there is every reason to believe that person is a communist”

    And when the House Committee for Un-American Activities dropped its investigation into the Klu Klux Klan in favour of going after the left wing the committee member John Rankin said that "After all, the KKK is an old American institution."

    **


    What followed seems very like a move by the American political elite to rid the US of what they saw as a political rival.

    A loyalty programme was brought in for all government workers and anyone with left leaning views or associations could lose their job, be sacked for their beliefs.

    People could appeal but the evidence against them did not have to be disclosed and accusers did not have to be identified.

    Think about that – believing in equal rights or a distributive tax system could get you thrown out of your job?

    Later it became even easier to sack someone for having ‘suspect’ (left wing) views, with the criteria for dismissal going from ‘reasonable grounds’ to only having to have ‘reasonable doubts’ about a persons supposed ‘loyalty’ and those that had been cleared under the lower criteria had their case re-opened.

    And in 1953 departments were given the power to dismiss individuals without having to conduct any hearing whatsoever on the merest suspicion.
    The Progressive Party of the time, which among other things advocated an end to segregation, full voting rights for blacks, and universal government health insurance, was branded a ‘communist’ party. Its leader Henry Wallace, along with others advocating such ‘radical’ ideas were then banned from speaking at a number of universities.

    The purge spread from the government into other areas most famously the entertainment industry, but also academia were airing ‘communist’ ideas (that in practice meant many left wing ideas) could bring about dismissal and the law where the American Bar Association also brought in a loyalty oath, and lawyers that defended those accused of having un-American ideas could find themselves been accused of the same thing and put under investigation.

    At the same time there was a constant stream of anti-communist propaganda but this very often made no distinction between what was ‘evil communist’ and the vast majority of left wing thought. And many Americans even today seem to make little distinction between hard line Stalinism and the wishy washy leftism of say New Labour - it happens frequently on these forums with ‘communist’ been thrown out as an insult and being directed at those with even the most moderate of lift wing views. And on the many right wing websites there are shrill cries whenever anyone says anything that isn’t firmly right of centre, and the kind of attack and slander once directed at commies has now expanded to include ‘liberals’.

    Today in US politics there is very little pulling from the left and even the right of centre can be accused of been socialist.

    *

    The purging of the left wing meant there was little debate opposing ‘anti-communist’ government policies that often resulted in military actions (covert and overt).

    Such things as the overthrow of elected government as in Iran and Chile, the propping up of dictators in many places, the Vietnam war, the arming of Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan and so on and etc.
     
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  5. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Good recap. The theater continues.
     

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