The only way anarchy can work.

That is the biggest fucking cop out ever. "I'm not going to give you examples because I know it works, it works fine in my own head"

 

Fine, you are basically self-admitting that you are a poser and you have no idea what Anarchism is about. Good work exposing yourself as ignorant, dude.

So you want examples? Fine.

The free cities of mediaeval Europe
Spain 1936-39 (Maily provinces of Catalonia,Andalusia,Aragon & Asturias,region of Costa Brava)
Ukraine 1918-22 (aka 'Makhnovshtina','Vilna Ukraina' approx. 3/4 of nowaday Rep.Ukraine and parts of nowadays southern Russia)
Mexico 1910-1928 ('Zapatistas' in the south, 'Division del Norte' in the north)
Chiapas, Mexico 1994-present (the modern-day Zapatista)
France 1871 (The 'Paris Commune', also in many other cities a 'commune' was proclaimed but crushed after several days) and Paris 1968
Rhode Island 1636-48
Tortuga 1640-80 (Pirate 'commune')
Albermarle 1640-63
England 1649-52 ('Diggers' run land, only one county)
Madagascar 1680-1715 approx. (aka 'Libertalia' Pirates and liberated slaves 'Pirate utopia')
Whiteway colony, England 1898-present
San Feliu libertarian republic 1909 (Catalonia)
Tambov, Russia 1919-21 ('Antonovshtina' mainly Essers and anarchists NOT bolsheviks)
Cangaco, Brazil 1920-40 (Sertao, Pernambuco / Lampiao & Corisco's cangaceiros)
Kronstadt, Russia 1921
Patagonia, Argentina 1921 ('La Patagonia rebelde' workers/peasants 'commune')
Tolstoyan communes, Russia 1917-37
Shinmin, Korea/China 1924-31
Hungary 1956
Western Sahara 1976-present (aka 'Saharawi', state 'exist' only in exile, no government, self-organization)
Kwangju, Korea 1980
Spartacus' slave liberation, Apenine peninsula
Matija Gubec peasant liberation, nowaday Slovenia & Croatia 1573
Wat Tyler, England 1381
Adamites, Bohemia (Czechia) 1400-21
Ireland / Celtic world cca. 1000 b.c - 1171 a.d.
Brothers & Sisters of the free spirit 1300-1400
Dong Hak peasants, Korea 1894-96
Cornwall 1497
John Wraw, East Anglia, Enlgand 1381
Munster, Johann of Leyden 1520-40
Kengir gulag, Soviet Union 1954
St. Kilda islands, off Scotland approx. 1500-1930
Thomas Munzer's peasants, Germany 1528-29

You can find information on many of these here, as well as more examples.

To which we could also add some more borderline examples, such as the first two centuries of Iceland, early Labrador, present-day Somalia, Freetown Christiania (in Copenhagen), etc, as well as anarchist businesses, esp. the self-managed business movement in Argentina, Mondragon, and many others, including some in the US.

Please don't regale me with your statist cries of "but none of these really count!" or "stop calling me a statist just because I argue exactly like a statist!". Just shut up already, dude. You are not an Anarchist, you don't know the first thing about Anarchism, and your schtick is not funny or interesting. I've heard this nonsense many times before from hardcore statists.

 

You just listed things where hundreds of thousands of people were dying, none of those were anarchy. You have no idea what's going on in the world, no wonder you think it works. You say "don't say of those don't really count" because none of them fucking count.

Free cities are not free of government, their states where the city makes up near the whole country.

Spain was in the middle of a savage civil war where nationalist, communist or republican forces controlled various areas.

This was not anarchy, this was a republic, heck you couldn't even try wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_People's_Republic
They have a picture of the main ministers of government.

If you're using Mexico's civil war as an example of anarchy "working", we apparently have different definitions on what constitute a functioning human settlement. In fact this the dominance of armed gangs shows the inherent flaw in anarchy

Ah christ I'm not going to even keep going, you're an idiot, you have no idea what anarchy means, you change the word to suit your own personal beliefs despite the fact your belief system only works by completely ignoring reality.

 

Anarchism is about Selfishness with a capital S. There's nothing else to it. It's not a system. It's the ultimate iintellectual laziness.

 

What is selfish about wanting everyone to be treated as human beings and on equal grounds? Isn't capitalism, rather, the epitome of "every-man-for-himself" selfishness? Do the recent bailouts, BP's blustering in the face of a disaster they created, the destruction of whole economies and ecosystems, strike you as altruism or selfishness?

 

Less selfish than anarchy. At least bailouts save the jobs of a lot of people.


Anarchy is asinine and every example you post if something that isn't anarchy, so subconsciously you're pretty aware it's asinine too.

 

anarchy will work when we end competition, enable and empower cooperation

[is this even possible?]

 

I enjoyed what you wrote.
I agree with it totally.
My thoughts exactly.
Free is Freedom,
Money is debt and taxes ,the loss of your Freedom and independence,it limits your liberty's to only what you can afford.
Giving power to a ruling class.
Money has never been the answer to the world's problems,cause it is causing the worlds problems.
Trying to solve the worlds problems with money is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline or like trying to cure cancer with cigarettes.
People is the only answer to solving the world's problems.
Instead of waring we should be organizing and working together.
Providing freely what we all depend on and need for our survival.

 

In order for any political/social/economic system to work, that system must deal with the way that people are, not the way some folks might like them to be. On the surface, it might seem like communism is a pretty reasonable idea, but, in practice, that system either has already failed or is on the way to failing in the former Soviet Union, China and other parts of the world.

We can know that if we were to take all of the wealth of the world, divide it up and give everybody an equal share, what things would look like if we went away for an hour and came back. There would be some people with a lot of wealth, and others saying things like "I gave it to that guy for safekeeping" or "Somebody came around with a deck of cards and asked if I wanted to play a little poker."

Like it or not, that really is the way that people are. Quite a few people who acquire great wealth (i.e. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, etc.) come to the realization that there's nothing to do with all that money other than spending on things to make the world a better place. Yes, there are also people who accumulate wealth and clutch to it like it will give them some measure of comfort, but it usually doesn't.

It's quite easy to point fingers at the evils of capitalism, but what seems to work best on a national and global scale is some kind of mixture of capitalist and socialist principles. Of course, the success of these principles is only as good as the intentions of those people who have the capacity to make them happen.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Aqfp5iMnw"]YouTube- WKUK Anarchy

 

Hey Franc28, are you in that video?

 

Okay but you haven't answered my challenges to your argument. Also, I'm not an anarchist.

Did the Republicans in Spain win the war? No. And that's the core of my argument. So again I'll ask in hopes that you'll provide an example: When has an anarchist society successfully repelled an aggressive nation?

Answer: It hasn't happened.

And you say it's in man's nature to want to be free and equal. I agree. But it's also in man's nature to subjugate others. So I guess I'm a 'statist' but only because, ya know, I think Somalia sucks.

Finally, you're taking this all way too personally.

 

for a 13 year old?

 

no. man's nature is solely the environment they are in and how they were raised.
in a system that is fundamentally about man fighting man, then of course they will always subjugate each other. it is not the man to blame, but the motive, and the system that will always be the root of the motive.

 

I dunno about that. We're related to primates -- ya know, gorillas and shit -- correct? And certain primates have been observed basically engaging in 'turf wars' for no real reason. (I'm gonna find the video that proves this. It was on Discovery or some shit. Monkey Mayhem. Definitely good viewing with a few beers lol)

Or when the Cro-Magnons kicked the shit out of the Neanderthals. Did the system cause that?

Or how about the Mongolians rampaging across the Middle East, destroying some of the most advanced societies of the time?

I agree we can blame the system for tons of shit. But c'mon.

 

the mongolians conquested for economic power basically. that time period started in the 1200's, far into/after the start of the monetary and human labor-based system.

we're extremely different from other primates now. c'mon
and if we have the means of moving on from primitive ways, away from the system that at least further encourages subjugating others, then why shouldn't we?

and the reason why primates (and other animals) in history have subjugated eachother is for territorial reasons. with more territory, it protects their food, enhances chances for attracting a mate, and reduces chances of vulnerability.

we humans have moved away from mating things, we're overpopulated! haha and we've moved from territorial stuff now even because you have to abide by things like laws now.

 

Franc28, You said that it is man's nature to want to be free and equal. I've got to say, I tend to be an optimist and look for the good in people and the rest of life, but I really have great difficulty buying that statement.

I'm willing to believe that it is in man's nature to want to be free, but being equal? I don't think so. As much as I truly love the Declaration of Independence and the concepts that it stands for, I can't find a lot of evidence that suggest that it is in our nature to embrace the equality of our fellow man.

If anything, it appears pretty basic to our nature that we look for reasons that we are better than others. Jefferson's words had a history going back to the Greek philosophers, Jesus, Rousseau, Locke and others. The concept that we are all equal is very high level, and, from what I can tell, it takes a certain amount of awareness to get next to that idea.

Let's not forget that even Jefferson and the others who signed the D of I didn't give equality to negroes and women. In fact, we hear in our history books that women were not given the right to vote in the United States until 1920, and most of us just accept that as kind of "oh well."

 

Unless you're in East LA or North Philly lol

 

we are basically smart apes, but we are so smart that we can teach ourselves not to behave stupidly

the problem is, it is in the best interest of the ruling class that the majority of us do act stupidly

so there is little interest in teaching us to behave otherwise...

 

I don't care to lead or be lead.
The true Anarchist: is one knows how to govern themselves.
Respecting the freedoms and rights of others.
Living in Harmony with others.
If we can't act civilized and learn to govern ourselves.
Criminal actions demands we need to be policed,to protect the rights of others.
Not only do we threaten our own freedoms and rights,but the Freedom and rights of others.
Which goes against everything the anarchist believes in.

If you want to fight the system.
Start by becoming more self sufficient and independent and less dependent on the system to provide for your needs.
I know this isn't easy to do because money controls everything.
Their power lies in their money system and our dependency on it to pay for our needs.
Money gives them the right to deny people free access to land and resources.

Living off the grid is the answer.
We need to regain back our right to live freely off the land.
Knowing how to live off the land gives us back our freedoms.
The less dependent we are for them to provide for our needs. The more freedom and control we have over our own lives.
Knowing how to provide your own shelter, electricity, water,food.
You free your self of monthly rent ,bills and other debts.
Cutting your expenses.
I hope that some day mankind will evolve to no longer need money to function as a society.