The oldest religion in the world - that is islam

Not Jews....zionists....there are quite a few pro-palestinian jews who i would proudly march beside at any protest. I take it as a token of the fact that this movement is gaining weight and the zionists are begining to fear us. they know that it is we in the west who pay their bills.
www.nkusa.org
www.jewsagainstzionism.com
www.jewsnotzionists.com
www.jfjfp.org
www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org



And stop calling me a university student like it is a bad thing, just because you were to stupid to advance far past the seventh grade doesnt mean you have to assault those who did.

 

and Cab doesnt realise it but he is making the point even clearer when he recalls that 'Christians' is not even a word or term from the Bible anyways.
This is a word Romans used to describe them.

I dont think its a problem (any more than saying Muhammedans) because everyone understands what the speaker means to say.

They (The 'Christians') simply said 'This is the Way' or were 'People of The Way'
They followed 'The Way'
So what does that mean?
Its not a 'name' or 'title' of a 'religion' that has started but instead it just means submitting to Gods Will.

And this is the very point Im making Cab.
Of course a Muslim is going to describe Islam as nothing more than the proper way to submit.
(Thats the point of being a Muslim!)

Of course a Christian is going to describe The Way as nothing more than the proper way to Submit... (that the point of them following it in the first place!)

Like I was saying - I could take everything you said, replace 'Islam' with the word 'Mormonism' and its just as valid.... at least from the Mormons point of View and in his mind!

Again, its easy for you to just show up and say Paul has changed something.
Well I can just as easily say Muhammed came along even later and changed even more!

But according to Muhammeds own set standards - who should I believe first:
One Witness about himself?
or
Four Witnesses about another?

 

Pat Robertson has spoken! Hallelujah!

 

While I dont think Zionists 'fear' anyone, its no surprise that there are a few groups of 'pro palestinian' Jews over here and there really is a rather large portion of the Israeli population that is sympathetic.
They dont win many elections but they are a segment of the population.

As far as 'who is paying the bills'.
You need to understand that Palestinian orgs are also being paid for by foreign supporters themselves.
Even by people here in the West.

Both are getting 'backed up' by a lot of other nations out there.
One of the reasons a country like Canada supports Israel is because they are indeed our Friends and Allies.
You dont always love or even like your Ally but they are still the ones who will support you, work with you and at the end of the day they are Democratic enough to be on our team.

One of the major problems the Pro-Palestinian campus movement will have is dealing with a lot of Jews who are NOT anti-zionists.
These people are extremely influencial in Canada and hold major, major positions in business, banking, politics and maybe the most powerful - The Media.
So in that sense, lets just say its not looking very good for your side.

Personally, I am sympathetic to the HONEST and sincere arab immigrants who are now in Israel and largely because these people were required, requested and happily settled when Israel needed their labour and their skills.
So I dont see any problem in getting them what they deserve.
(Not the PLO)
However,
Its clear to me that there will be no 'Palestinian problem' in about 20 years after they are systematically (or dramatically) moved out of the land of Israel. At this point its beginning as a step-by-step slow process.
Should they decided to declare the West Bank a 'Nation' and then do anything to give the Israelis an excuse to go to war (which will inevitably happen) then it will just speed up the process.

As a Christian, the biggest concern I have is over some Christian Churches who are mistakenly 'taking a side' with the Zionists only because they believe this is somehow 'fullfilling Gods Plan'.
This is backwards thinking and uncalled for by any doctrines or intentions.
This would be like supporting Al Quaida (or other antizionist) organisations because you know that Israels coming destruction (or near destruction) will work for Gods Plan too.

Fortunately, most Christians do NOT fall for this sort of nonsense but I always keep my eye on the various groups who start to cause everyone a problem with that thinking.
(of course, there are idiots in all walks of life too).

Even Still.. The PLO is the only one deliberately murdering civilians so I hope they get defeated first and foremost.
I have no more sympathy for them than I did for the antichristians child murderers going around calling themselves 'The IRA'.
Hope they all get eliminated from the planet. Permanently.

 

I have countered every one of your arguements in that post before, and quite frankly i do not feel like repeating myself to some ignorant zionist. you dont know the situation in Palestine at all, and you mistake palestinian organizations, not to mention you seem to support the zionist domination of the media (once again, change your avatar picture, you hypocrate). The Palestinians are not migrant workers, that is an Israeli propaganda ploy to take away the legitimacy of the Palestinian people in relation to the land, most people arent stupid enough to buy it, but i suppose there are a few takers here and there. what truly scares me is that you support a "final solution" to the palestinian problem by "relocating" them from their own land.........perhaps for more Lebensraum for Israel? surely you can appreciate such irony. And I am fully aware of Christian zionism, and it doesnt matter that most christians are not christian zionists, what matters is that many christians with power are zionists, but of course these are only pawns. israel is an aparthied state, and if you support it with the current state that it is in, im sorry, but you are something of a fascist.

 

Yes but considering that you even believe I am a 'Zionist' lol.. so your wacky theories that everyone else can be dont surprised me.

Again, you are not 'countering' by just denying well understood facts of life.
Almost every single 'Palestinian' is either FROM another Arab Nation (i.e. Arafat is from Egypt) or they are second and third generation Jordanians (and others).

This is a fact of life.
Just reposting denials or pointing at a tiny tiny fraction that are from indigenous people (as are a some Jews) is not going to change the common explanation for almost all others.

As I said - I DO think there should be something for the Israeli Citizens who are from Arab heritage.
This doesnt change the fact that Israel will eventually impliment that slow, systematic relocation.
I didnt say I liked it - I just say that is what is due to happen.
Most will go back to Jordan or various parts of the Arab world.

Im not saying that is good either. Im just saying it will end that problem.
The next problem of Arab Nations trying to annihilate Israel will be a whole another story to itself.

 

Youve never met a Palestinian, have you? theyre just some mysterious people on tv that you seem to detest, arent they? Arafat may have been born in Egypt (this is not a fact, but rather it is disputed) but that does not make him Egyptian. Both his parents were Palestinians, his mother coming from a rather prominent family in Palestine, and his father was a working Palestinian. Eamon Devalera was born in the US, does that make him an American? by birth yes, but does that really matter? He was Irish through-and-through, and he led his people up against tyranny and oppression, much like Arafat. you are the one who is denying facts of the world. But as passionately as I feel about this, and as much I have to say about it, I am not a Palestinian, and I hope that one day you will meet one and she or he can tell you the so-called "facts of life" for what they really are.

 

You definately do not need to go to Israel to know very well understood, verifiable, attestable, well documented basics about populations and at the very least we can certainly know, without a doubt who they are NOT.

Philistines were not a 'Nation' and as a matter of a fact, there were MANY different 'peoples' who happened to be living in the REGION sometimes called the 'Palestine Region'.
Jews, Christians, Arabs (Beduin) and actually all kinds of various ethnic mix and matches from over the centuries.

Again, almost EVERYONE who is now dubbed a 'Palestinian' is from a family history (and I mean as in - Grandparents or PARENTS) if not they themselves FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Seriously.
Everyone knows this except people who get their story from Western News on the TV or from Internet Missionaries like you.

Look.. there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT and as far as Im concerned they should all be proud of it ok!
Good!
But stop going around making up ridiculous stories about some mythical 'nation' called 'Palestine' and how 'Their Land' is being 'Occupied'.
Total Nonsense.

"well they have a different dialect because they pronounce a 'Q' sound like a "G'"
Oh gimme a break.. people in my next town over have these things.
Neighbourhoods a block apart from each other in London have these things.

"Some are there from history and are not all immigrants or refugees from other Arabs states"
Yes.. like what... .03%?
Is it more?
Guess what.. then you can find just as many JEWS who were still living in the Palestine Region for centuries too.
Like 5 of them.
Would you even dare to suggest Israelis have every right to be there because, technically speaking, there are a few Israelis Jew Families that have been there for centuries?

By the way.. I hate to disappoint the heavily relied on 'Victim Status Claim' made by Al Jazeera types but Palestinians (as we call them now) are NOT portrayed as nefarious and hostile types.
Actually the US and Western Media LOVES portraying them as equal (but less powerful) than the Israelis.
You NEVER hear anythign about them being an immigrant group just like the Jews are.

Sorry but Palestinians get a pretty good presentation on US networks.
I have only seen 'Fox News' a few times sorry to tell you.
Im stuck watching most of the 'Palestinian Cause Friendly' Canadian Stations just like you are.

 

So let me get this straight, according to you both the Palestinians and Jews are recent migrants to the region? wow, i never knew that an area like that, brimming with both agricultural and spiritual wealth, could have been completely uninhabited until 1948! do you see how this doesnt make sense? No, I do not get my information from internet missionaries and western news, for the most part, I get my information from my Palestinian friends (who strongly disagree with your all too common claim that there is no such thing as a Palestinian, and I think they'd know better than you). But there is one thing you do have to understand, the whole concept of nationality is relatively new to that region, they used to simply be Palestinian Arabs, its much the same in all oppressed places, Africa and Latin America for instance. Many Palestinians do not want Palestine to be its own country, but rather one part of a greater Pan-Arabic state, which would be nice, for binded together they could resist Zionist-American Imperialism. The simple fact is that the Arabs lived in Palestine first, and they were invaded by an Imperialist power, zionism is imperialism by its very definition. Its actually racial imperialism, finding lebensraum for the chosen people. Why do you justify the fact that these people are being forced off their homes? I do wonder if you also supported the Aparthied regime of South Africa? Did you know that most south african Blacks are Bantu's who came from central Africa, thus not making them true south africans? would this justify the horridly oppressive regime of the National Party? Their land is being occupied, and to deny that fact is like saying the sky is down. I have heard many first hand stories of the occupation and its horrors, and believe me, it is far worse than anything Palestine has ever hurled at Israel. These people, my friends, have lived in Palestine for many more generations than I have lived in Canada, and I have voyageur ancestors, so that says alot. dont give me this whole "their only 3rd generation" crap, because it really doesnt hold up. who do you say was in Palestine before the 19th century?


One thing that you have to stop is confusing Palestinian organizations. It is a common misconception that the PLO is a terrorist organization, indeed I thought it was too, when i was 12 years old and didnt know right from left about the region. The PLO does not, nor has it ever, employed suicide bombers. When you claim that, it makes most people who are activists about this issue just decide to not take you seriously.

 

Hey listen.. I think its a shame that far too many 'regular' Palestinians, just trying to live day to day have to pay the price for PLO (and yes, there is 4-5 groups) for what they have started.
I totally believe you have a whole neighbourhood of honest, working (or worse unemployed) Palestinian families doing no harm.
THEN
A group of armed thugs decides their neighbourhood is just perfect for firing Mortars into the Israeli neighbourhood across the street.
After usually murdering an Israeli or two (also just minding their own business too) and guess what?
The Authority, obviously has no choice but to remove that neighbourhood to somewhere else.
The Terrorists dont care because they are getting funded and glory and just go onto the next town.
Meanwhile the Palestinian family gets fucked over and has to move AND their suffereing gets packaged and sold by the Terrorists as more 'fodder' anyways.

Hey.. here is something from the net;

WHAT DOES "PALESTINE" MEAN?

It has never been the name of a nation or state. It is a geographical term, used to designate the region at those times in history when there is no nation or state there.

The word itself derives from "Peleshet", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". The Philistines were mediterranean people originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They reached the southern coast of Israel in several waves. One group arrived in the pre-patriarchal period and settled south of Beersheba in Gerar where they came into conflict with Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. Another group, coming from Crete after being repulsed from an attempted invasion of Egypt by Rameses III in 1194 BCE, seized the southern coastal area, where they founded five settlements (Gaza, Ascalon, Ashdod, Ekron and Gat). In the Persian and Greek periods, foreign settlers - chiefly from the Mediterranean islands - overran the Philistine districts. From the time of Herodotus, Greeks called the eastern coast of the Mediterranean "Syria Palaestina".

The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina"; which is derived from the Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea.

The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab ethnic group is a modern political creation which has no basis in fact - and had never had any international or academic credibility before 1967.

----

That was MODERATE compared to the rant this guy goes on:
http://www.masada2000.org/

He does make one monsterous point here which everyone seems to be ignoring.
ISRAEL WAS A NATION FOR CENTURIES.

You want to find all kinds of evidence that Caananites were 'related to Arabs' or that Beduins were 'The Real Palestininians' and all this and nobody seems to mention this is ANCIENT ISRAEL.
You might have noticed this from things like sayyyy.. the old testament, history books or the fact that ANCIENT ISRAEL IS BURIED UNDERNEATH IT.

Now does that mean they have some right to be taking it over again?
Thats one reason.
The other being they were handed the land over by British Imperialists who happened to own the place back then.

Anyways..The South Africans simply do not and did not have the numbers to maintain control.
Unlike Palestinians - the British/Dutch immigrants arent running around trying to tell people they are the 'real natives' and that Blacks are 'Occupying' their homeland and so on.

Personally I am FOR Palestinians taking over the Gaza Strip area but the way I see it this is all part of a plan to move them OUT of everywhere else.
Then,
They can count on the fact a new 'Palestinian State' will declare war on Israel (or something will start) and then they will annihilate it off the planet.
End of Palestinian problem.

Again, because Im describing what I think will probably happen does not mean I think its good or support Zionism.
Believe me I can tell you some opinions about the Zionists that would undoubtedly have me banned from Hipforums as an 'AntiSemite' (and of course, a 'Nazi') in about 10 minutes.
That doesnt mean I have to sit around and gobble up all the lies, manipulations and propaganda the Al Jazeera crowd want to make up about Palestinians either.

I WISH it would resolve itself peacefully but since that is out of the question then it would be just as well that Israel wins, Palestinians leave, we all shed a tear but at least its over, we go on with life and ultimately less pain and violence once its over.

We can hope.

 

You can disect any nationality like that untill you find that they havnt allways been there. The British for instance are a race of invaders, be they Germanic, Danish, or Norman. even the celts migrated there at some time, so going over the history of the word palestinian doesnt really proove much. Yes your right that Israel will probably kick alot more Palestinians out before the day is done, but the Arabs have a saying, and it goes something like this "the darkest time of night occurs just before the dawn". Israel can not survive long term. their imperialistic attitudes have earned them no friends in the middle east. They are 5 million surrounded by 100 million people who hate them for what they have done to the Arab Palestinians (acknowledging the fact that the Palestinians are arabs does not take away their Palestinianishness, just like acknowledging the fact that the Irish are Celts does not take away their Irishness). The west is failing right now, that is a fact, we can not survive if we maintain this corporate consumer culture (or lack of culture I should say), so it comes down to this simple fact: we shall either change or western civilization as we know it shall perish. Without western aide, Israel will not last long, and if the west reforms and saves itself from its impending doom, it is unlikely to still support the Aparthied regime of Israel.

I personally do not see the withdrawl from Gaza as a large victory, seeing as the majority of those (tax-evading) settlers simply moved into similar settlements in West Bank. Do me a favour. Look at 2 maps, the Jewish homeland as the UN origionaly laid out, and Israel today. huge difference. the largest being Jerusalem, as it seems the Israeli's ignore the historical fact that expansionism in this city has never been a good idea (a little thing called the crusades ring a bell?).

You seem to be ignorant of 2 main things, Number one being that Israel (namely the IDF) have indulged in extremely violent practises that are undoubtedly signs of occupation, especially in Gaza (which continues unhindered after the 'withdrawl')
and 2, you have never explained to me who lived in the region before the 19th century, so I am interested as to what the lie about the Palestinians that you so keenly follow believe the inhabbitants of the region to be at that time.

 

People did live in the 'Palestine Region' before the 19th century.
Beduin are an Arab people.
There were also remnants of Jews left over from the centuries before.
Almost NONE of these people are the forefathers to any of the people there today whether they are Palesinians or 'Israelis'.
Almost ALL of the immigrants now calling themselves 'Palestinians' are from Syria, Lebanon, Jordan.
When I say 'From' I dont mean from centuries ago - I mean as in minutes ago.
Same for almost ALL the Jews there.
Two groups of IMMIGRANTS.


Yes, Im aware that 100 Million Arabs would like to (and probably will) try and exterminate Israel off the map.
The ONLY reason why they havent done it already is because Israel is backed by western democracies.
Namely one with 300 Million people who are not exactly crazy about the Arab Nations themselves.

So what is the final solution - AntiZionists MUST try and break that support by all means.
Either by starting grass-roots movements in the Universities and in western opinions.. try and get the people themselves to vote out pro-israeli governments.
and/or
Blow up WTC's and remind everyone its only against the 'Jewnited States' and will stop once Israel is left to fend for itself.

Sure, everyone would like that.
Meanwhile there is no good reason to get rid of Israel and nobody even wanted that land until they showed up anyways lol.

I have to say.. I do wonder if some of these Israeli terrorist kooks will ever succeed in blowing up the Dome on the Rock.
I think they have tried 3 times now - they always get caught though.
Maybe only a matter of time like the WTC.
Eventualy they get in there.
?

 

mannnnnnnn they've really managed to twist you good havent they!

leave you to re-write history and the occupiers would become natives

..so who are the natives of the 'jewnited states' ? the english-irish-german-italians ? occupied by the so-called indigenous ?!

 

Yeah, I was talking to my Palestinian friend today and he said that they did a blood test on Palestinians and found a huge amount of Canaanite blood in them. Of course the Israeli's tried to silence this, but the test survived, Im sure if you scoured the internet (or went to Palestine itself, but Im assuming you wont want to do that for the sake of a forum debate) you would find this test. the Caananites mixed with two northern Arab tribes and left over jews (there was a shitload of Arab jews, and still are some, but most have became Muslims of their own free will since) and his people resulted.

 

Response to Cabs (Muhammed and The Koran) Claim that Adam was a Muslim or anyone else before Muhammed:
According to several passages in the Koran - Muhammad was the first Muslim:

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. S. 6:14 Pickthall

Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall

So that settles it, there were no Muslims before Muhammed.
He is the First.

 

Muslim means "those who submit" and under Islamic theology, birds and bees and wind and trees are all Muslim because they all submit to the will of God, that is they are at peace with themselves and they behave naturally, as they should. Indeed, under Islamic theology all babies are born Muslims as well, so then it is the oldest religion if one accepts Islamic theology (which I know not all do) and that was Cab's origional point.



Im getting pretty sick of all these Islamophobic posters (even though there are like 3) spreading their hatred and ignorance. Im sure Mr. Bush smiles to think that so many people blindly follow this irrational fear of Islam that fuels his imperialistic conquests.

 

No.
Under Islamic Theology, Muhammed is the first Muslim.
Is Cab denying the Word of Muhammed or confused?
Am I wrong?
Here again are the scriptures:

Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender [aslama] (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters.

Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin).

He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims.

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him).