The Official "Bash Communism" Thread

i've read all of the above, constantly. i just walked away, once i saw the futility. you see me getting pissed at your signature? at chiefs amusing posts? no, 'cause they're amusing and they mean nothing to me.

 

it doesnt really bother me that people are not communist... it amazes me how much pro-capitalist non sensical garbage is on hipforums... capitalism and hippies do not mix... perhaps people didnt understand where john lennon was coming from when he wrote "imagine"

 

and that's fine. but it really freaks me out to see you pitching a fit over a bunch of jokers on random thoughts. it was a total HuckFinn flashback.

 

*slap* dont you ever compare me to huckfinn again

and i dont think everyone was joking.

 

That's why a lot of us aren't capitalist.. even though we're not communist either..

 

what would you propose as a better form of economic organization than?

 

Like I said.. *several times*.. as far as I know I think communitarism would make a good chance.. but I only read Amitai Etzioni's work about it so I have to say that I'm not completely familiar with it and like every ideology it has its pro's and con's.. just lesser con's than the others I think.

 

do you have a link... or can you explain wtf communitarism is because i've never heard about it.

 

About Etzioni: http://www.amitaietzioni.org/

His weblog with his thoughts: http://www.amitai-notes.com/blog/

A short introduction to communitarism (you need acrobate reader for this): http://www2.gwu.edu/~ccps/etzioni/A308.pdf

I'll quote a bit from the pdf since I'm not sure if you have the aqcuired software:

"Communitarianism is a social philosophy that maintains that society should articulate what is good–that such articulations are both needed and legitimate. Communitarianism is often contrasted with classical liberalism, a philosophical position that holds each individual should formulate the good on his or her own. Communitarians examine the ways shared conceptions of the good (values) are formed, transmitted, justified, and enforced. Hence their interest in communities (and moral dialogues within them), historically transmitted values and mores, and the societal units that transmit and enforce values such the family, schools, and voluntary associations (social clubs, churches, and so forth), which are all parts of communities."

Still think I'm a greedy capitalist?

 

Still there Mui? I'm curious as to what you think of it..

 

Then Marxism must allow for human sacrifices, polygamy and extortion of an entire community by a cheif.

True. As Rosseau said, there will never be a democracy in the truest sense of the word. And even if it does exist it cannot be reached through Marxism. The outcome of "Marxism" was Stalinism and not democracy.


All your statements are dogamtic proclamations and nothing else. Be a little more pragmatic, and accept the fact that communism doesn't work. and STOP FLAMING.

 

One of the reasons I'm not a hippie.

 

If we take away all the sentences you used to flame and brag about how knowledgable you are, your posts are one-liners as well.

and YES, We do know about "real" communism. Shit, my left-leaning proffessor always talked about it in class. Frankly, I was sick and tired of that crap.

For all know, if hasn't existed yet... then the communist manifesto is only as good as a Harry Potter Novel

 

No. I haven’t been talking to “pat” lately.

You respond in novels? Where are they?

The four to five sentence long posts (including quotes) certainly don’t count. You are indeed delusional when you imply that “you respond in novels”. You’re either delusional or ignorant. I can understand how seven sentences seem infinitely long to someone unfamiliar with books.

Or did you mean that you respond to novels.

The Manifesto, dear Mui, hardly counts as a novel. It is nothing more than an immature pamphlet from a bitter and disillusioned youth.

A student of history, as you claim to be, would certainly understand why such a pamphlet has gained so much popularity.

Regardless, on to how “the fuck I get this shit”.

Most people, Mui, don’t understand how everything can be level without some degree of restriction to the more fortunate people.

Equality must restrict the progression of the most qualified, indeed the better. Freedom is the notion that the better can get ahead, indeed that they should get ahead.

Egalitarianism can not make much progress without the use of force: perfect equality is only possible in total slavery. Since nature (and naturalness, implying freedom from artificial constraints) is not biased against even gross inequalities, force must be used to establish equality. Imagine an average class of students in a boarding school, with a normal variety of talents, interests, and inclinations for hard work. One day the dictatorial principal demands that all students score B in a given subject. The C, D, and E students would be forced to work harder, so much so that they would collapse. At the other end, the A students have to be restrained – given a whole bag of pot or locked up in a room with all of the years copies of Playboy or simply knocked the fuck out. The use of force, it seems would be necessary. It is the use of force that limits and in most cases destroys freedom.

Yet there seems to be some odd connection between the two terms. Freedom and equality. How many times have we heard these two terms at the heart of great movements? Back to history, Mui. Can you recall the event, which walked under the banner of “Liberty, Equality, Fraternity”? It may not have been the most quantitatively bloody, but certainly the most gruesome event on earth. How free could those french women and children have been when they were strung upside down by heels stretched as far apart as they could go and cut in half from midsection to head all after being brutalized and raped in front of one another?

Why did that all happen? Because some were too rich. Because some deserved more. It happened because of an abstract and man made need for equality.

There is a reason I never joined a fraternity. Indeed, after reading some of the stories of French fraternity and equality I began to call my brothers my cousins.

Do you think it a little unfair to blame the intermingling of these conflicting terms on the french revolution, Mui?

I do too.

There is another reason. I doubt that you will agree as a proponent of communism. Luckily I care not for your feelings on the matter. There is a psychological nexus at work here. Suppose person A is superior to person B (more powerful, more handsome, more intelligent, more influential, more wealthy) than B will feel inferior. He will feel ill at ease (tending to outburst at one line responses, perhaps?) and likely afraid of A. Inequalities always engender fear, dear Mui, and e n v y. The fraternity of fear and envy. Hell, let’s just throw hate in there to complete the unholy trinity.

Equality is the dynamic element of communism.

Liberty is the base of (real) liberalism.

Communism and (true) Liberalism are mutually hostile. You have shown us that much. By what alchemy have you made the heart and soul of these two worthy opponents any less so?

Strange bedfellows, wouldn’t you say?

I don’t blame the attempted recognition on you. You are merely American. You Americans desire equality more than anything else. It is always the case that that which people praise highly, is what they highly lack. The hungry praise food, the poor praise money, the homeless praise shelter, the fat praise slenderness. The same goes for nations. Praise of loyalty from Germans, valour of the Viennese, collectivist tendencies from Russians, frivolity from the French, individualism of Reformers, and obedience of Catholics.

Myths, Mui, just myths.

You utter “One man is as good as another” glibly, and rightly so. But when push comes to shove (unwittingly) you deny the very thing you are praising.

Such scathing criticisms of our posts come from the idea that we don’t know as much as you know. That a one-line response is not worthy of your discussion. Oh ... I forgot, Communism is forceful by nature. What is it they say ... all hail “Der Labourer”.

You have me wondering. I’m confused as how you can so easily disregard the ideal, the fundamental, indeed the cornerstone of the very theory you are defending in your responses. Ok I’ve lied. I understand completely. Your American education holds equality as close to the heart as liberty. Take some solace in the fortune of that American education. At least it wasn’t a Canadian education. (Don’t get me started on Canadian ed.)

It is all fake.

Myths, Mui, just myths.

 

Well put there, OSF.

Absolute Freedom and Absolute Equality are logical contraries. Marxism is impossible because it promises both.

 

then don't try so hard to look like him again.

jokers doesn't just refer to people making jokes.

 

osf, i was just thinking earlier today how funny it is when people are "slapping some education" on someone that they start referring to the in very familiar or polite ways. like "dear so-and-so," and you did it. that was great.