The next elections (2018/2020)

I think we should get a jump on this discussion. A lot is happening right now and there is a very good chance that while the democrats and republicans are playing Punch & Judy that a strong independent candidate for the top seat could rise from the cinders in 2020.

I can't speculate on names just yet, but a LOT of Americans are sick of watching the two houses of bickering accomplish so little while wasting so much. I personally would like to see more of the vulnerable D/R candidates get "Cantor-ized" by clever voters in 2018.

 

People are definitely sick of the crappy choices coming from the two major parties but as long as there is an electoral college there won’t be a viable third party

 

I see your point actually, though it only applies to the presidential race. This last election is certain proof of that since Bernie was not a democrat and Trump was not a republican. Yet both were forced to choose a side to aim for the top seat. There are plenty of ways to circumvent the system at every other level. I don't know of an example of something better than the electoral college, but I am not going to say it should be discontinued either. This isn't a democracy after all.

 

I agree. But it's not so much the Electoral College as the "winner take all" requirement that's been tacked onto it (not to mention the fact that the states determine requirements for a party getting on the ballot, and the states are run by Republicans and Democrats. Winner take all is not a Constitutional provision; its up to the states. Maine and Nebraska don't have it. And it is arguably a violation of the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment. I vote in Presidential elections, but mainly because there are State Questions on the ballot. Since I'm in one of the reddest of red states, and I'm definitely a "better dead than Red" guy, I know that I might as well vote for Donald Duck. Would a challenge get anywhere? I don't think so, but it might be worth a try.

 

That's what I thought in 2016. Didn't happen.

I've lost faith in the American voter's ability to see through bullshit and challenge the status quo.

We're a country of people who preferred Donald Trump to either Gary Johnson or Jill Stein.

 

I vote... Undies will have the next erection.

 

Agreed, but they also preferred Trump over the ultra-establishment Clintons.

 

Two things I see Trump has done right lately:

The introduction of tariffs, a slight shift back to protectionism. Free trade globalization has just given us a wealthier, too powerful China, the advantages of globalization have not been spread evenly across the globe

And his planned meeting with Kim Jong Un, he'd just need a photo op there, even if nothing is achieved, to undermine both China and Russia

I dont see Trump not getting a second term

 

Tulsi Gabbard 2020

 

That's because you're driven by logic instead of blind hatred for Trump. It's amazing to me how many people think politics is somehow "personal" to them when they have barely an ounce of skin in the game.

 

I agree. It’s funny though right. If EC votes are apportioned according to the popular vote then there’s no reason at all to go with tne EC.

The winner take all aspect, while the problem imo, is the only aspect of the EC that makes it significantly different from just counting votes given we’re clearly not willing to use the EC for dbs puroose it was intended

 

The purpose it was intended was the idea that the people picking the Prez would be a notch above the ordinary man in the street in terms of knowledge and intelligence. As it turns out, the electors are pretty much party hacks, so the Framers didn't see that coming.

 

Since I live in this country, I think my skin is in the game. I don't think my hatred of Trump is blind. I think people who think his is a normal presidency or that he's a good President must be blind. Most of the Trump supporters I know pride themselves in not watching the news or get it through Fox speak. I think Trump is a dangerous, reckless, narcissistic, corrupt, morally bankrupt, pussy grabbing, Putin loving, possibly treasonous sorry excuse for a human being, and that we'll be lucky to make it through until 2020. I don't think this will end well for us. Wait 'till Mueller makes his report (or Trump fires him beforehand) and see how people react.

 

Precisely! I'd be fine if Trump got impeached or quit. Probably make it easier for the principle Republican ideals to make better progress. And I don't like a lot if things they do, but we have become a shithole nation in the past decade. We need a change in direction.

 

Yes, as a nation we need to stop taking it on the chin for the betterment of nations who clearly think we're inferior rubes.

 

I understand hating someone you know. someone who has deliberately done you wrong and took great pleasure in doing it. Hating Trump is like hating a baseball team that just waxed your hometown favorite. It's like hating Ming the Merciless. Seriously, what has Trump actually DONE to you? Nothing. It's YOU who create the personal humiliation within yourself, Trump doesn't give a shit about you, you're bacteria to him.

Which is why hating Trump is so pitiful at the street level.

Know who I used to really hate? The Riddler. All those confusing quips, it was maddening.

 

Far from a shithole nation, but there are certainly lots of shits to go around, including the one in the Oval Office. What nation do you think is better? If you think it's a shithole now, wait until Trump and his crew get through with it.

 

Trump can and does do much more harm than anybody I know personally and certainly any baseball team I know of. The notion that you're only concerned about you and people who affect you directly is typical of a lot of people and exactly what's wrong with the country. Ming the Merciless is a fictional character, but Trump is very real. The fact that I and other humans are "bacteria" to Trump is one of the main things that's wrong with him. At the street level? I think Trump is sick at all levels.

 

You're bacteria to the Clintons, the Gates' and the Rockefellers too. Just because you hate them is meaningless in the grand scheme, you're not even close to being on their radar. Personally, I save my visceral hatred for people I can directly see and smell. People I can reach to ice pick their tires or deliver dog shit to their front porch.

Most, but not all, political figures are way out of my reach, so I hate them all equally. About as much as I hate Ming.

 

That's where we differ. I'm concerned about the well being of the country and other humans in general. And even if I were only self-interested I'd be really concerned about having somebody in the White House who can start a nuclear war that will annihilate me or make an economic decision that can wipe out my 401K or increase the cost of just about everything I buy. Your short sightedness may do you in. True, we can't do much except vote, express our opinions, demonstrate, etc. But every little bit helps and if enough people do that we might change things.

 

based on the timestamp on your post, you might have actually been right about this..