The Nature of Reality

MeAgain · Mar 19, 2021

wilsjane said: ↑

Their is always one thing that has puzzled me about sight.

We all know what we see, but their is no way of comparing it to others since it is always a comparison.
For example, if I was explaining blue to you, I could use the sky as a reference. However, if your eves were perceiving it differently, their is no way that either of us would ever know.
Blending colours would not help either. We all know the colour wheel application, but their is no fixed starting point

A modern cinema film has 4,000 pixels of 3 colours on each of it's 2,000 lines. Then each pixel has 256 brightness levels to choose between, This gives 2 billion combinations to produce the detail and we can see the differences.
We are quite clever really.

This one is a bit like infinity, insoluble to the human brain.

PS, their are a few other things that puzzle me too, but most of them are about human behaviour.
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That would seem to apply to all our senses.

MeAgain · Mar 20, 2021

THE DISSOLUTION OF EGOISM AND THE RESTITUTION OF THE SELF

1. The Ego and the Non-Dual Self .
The ego is not an entity: it is the highly complex notion of an embodied existence, arising out of the illusory combination of self and body. As stated above, it partakes of both, claiming sometimes to be the one and sometimes the other. I call the combination of self and body illusory, since the body, being changeful, is unreal.* If the changeful, bodily aspect of the ego is disclaimed, the ego as such dissolves, leaving the changeless self, the self being that true part of the complex which is at one with the principle of consciousness. This statement is made from a standpoint that is still relative, in order to show the way, for we do not and indeed we cannot change our nature. There has never been an incarnation: to realize this ultimate truth, we have only to recognize what had hitherto escaped our notice. Therein lies the beauty and the efficacity of the Vedantic method.
2. The destitution of the Self.
The non-dual nature of the self is unalterable. Nevertheless, it appears as the witness of thoughts whenever thoughts appear.** Identification of the self and the body coincides with the notion, l am the thinker (XIX, 3). But since I can remember having thought, it stands to reason that I am the witnessing consciousness before which all objective experience, including the notion that I am the thinker, comes and goes (XXII> i). When this is well understood, identification ceases. Now although identification with the body ceases, the I-thought, so long as a body appears, will continue to spring up as an integral part of the body-idea, that is to say, my brain will continue automatically to present me with the notion that I am the agent, the perceiver, or the enjoyer. But knowing that I am in reality the non-dual self, I shall no longer be affected by the vicissitudes of the body, nor will the apparent duality of subject and object lure me away from my true centre. Egoism has become an empty form; and life, in all its variety, a game to be played according to its own rules.

*See V, 4. 'I define reality as that which transcends change.' Reality may also be defined as that whose existence can never be doubted (see XXVI, 3), and as that whose being depends on no other principle.
**See XIX, i, for the definition of 'thought'.
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As the body continually changes, it has no reality, being different at each moment. The real self is changeless and endures. From our relative viewpoint the body and self give rise to an "I" notion. This notion cannot be changed as it the nature of human beings. However, the realization of this fact can be known.

Once we learn to witness our thoughts and remember having those thoughts, it will be seen that they do not arise from the body but from the immutable, eternal self. Identification with an independent agent will cease, and even thought the notion that I exist as an independent agent will continue to arise, it will no longer hold one captive. Duality will be seen as only an illusion, albeit a strong one subject to the rules of life.

MeAgain · Mar 21, 2021

3. The Gist of the Method.
We have just seen how the adoption of the witness's standpoint prevents identification. But this method has a further consequence. It is impossible to pay attention both to consciousness and to its object: attention, no matter how much it may vacillate, has never more than a single object at any given moment. When I attend to an object, that object alone is present (XX, 2). But sooner or later, I shall think that the object was present to me. This implies that I too was present as the witness, although it is the ego that wrongly claims to have been present. If then I pay attention to myself, that is to say, if I see myself as the witnessing consciousness before which the object appeared, consciousness alone is apprehended, not however, as the witness, for there is then no object to be witnessed, but as the non-dual self. This is the highest type of introversive, or subjective, thought mentioned in Chapter IV. With diligence and understanding, the adoption of the witness's standpoint will enable us not only to overcome the erroneous habit of identification: it will enable us to realize, once and for all, that our true self rests in non-duality.
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The appearance of an object implies an observer. Once we realize that an observer, observes the object the witness appears. I witness the observation of the object.
If, at this time, I can sense that the witness appears separately from the object and the observer of that object, it is possible to realize an existence beyond the object and observer. Beyond subject and object lies the non dual.

MeAgain · Mar 22, 2021

4. The Superiority of this Method.
If our inner and outer senses could be so restrained as to prevent the appearance of objects, it is possible that identification with the body, itself a sensory object, could be arrested. The attempt would not be made, however, excepting by one who ascribed reality to appearances as such*: but this we cannot now do. The sole practical means that is available to us for putting an end to identification consists certainly in adopting the standpoint of witnessing consciousness, according to the principles set forth above. When this is done, the senses, which serve only to implement desire, can no longer delude us.**
In short, the knowledge that circumstances affect the body and not the self gives absolute freedom to him who has attained it. Knowing that he never was born, he cannot fear the body's death. He is fearless.

*All those who wish to renounce an unexplained world are covered by this description.
**Let me caution anyone who may be tempted to find in these words an excuse for abandon: he has not grasped their meaning. They express an important fact, which will be further discussed in Ch. XXIX, and especially in Section 6 of that chapter.
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The senses continually accept input, as they cannot be separated from the object sensed, therefore our only recourse is to realize the true nature of that input. Sensory input affects the body only and not the true self which is the witness of that interaction between subject and object.
Being the witness the body is transcended. Being transcended the witness is free of the body.
Freedom from the body the witness is never born and never dies as does the body.
Never born, never dying, fear never can arise.

MeAgain · Mar 23, 2021

5 . An Injunction Regarding the Personal Application of the Method.
I would strongly emphasize that no one should attempt to apply these principles by himself: the method is different in each individual case. Personal guidance from one who has fully realized non-duality is therefore essential. Neither this nor any other book can take its place. My aim here is to indicate a practical possibility which a few happy members of the human species must always have known and experienced. The same warning has already been given (XVI, note 3): I make no apology for the repetition, for this is a matter of supreme importance.
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Unfortunately this is not always possible and setting out on a journey alone in many cases would be preferable to staying at home.

MeAgain · Mar 23, 2021

Time for a little regression.

John Levy was born into wealth in Britain in 1910.
He was an artist and musician specializing in Indian (as in India) folk music.
He became an orthodox Jew, and studied the Cabbala. He then turned to orthodox Islam and Sufism, finally
giving his wealth away and going to India to study Advaita Vedanta under Atmananda Krishna Menon.
He served as a soldier in the Army Educational Corps in India during WWII.

He returned to the West and published the book we are discussing in 1956.
He wrecked his motorcycle in the 70s and lapsed into a coma lasting several weeks.
Both legs were amputated and he never fully regained his health.
He died in 1976.

MeAgain · Mar 24, 2021

THE VERBAL EXPRESSION OF NON-DUALITY

I remarked in a previous chapter (XVI9 3) that although non-duality abides as the substratum and the reality of dualistic experience, we cannot be aware of it when our attention is turned outwards. It may then be asked how one can speak of non-duality so as to convey its meaning to others; for in order to speak or even to conceive of it, we must, as in fact we unwittingly do, become merged in it, just as in order to 'remember' a dream, we must re-enter the dream and leave the present waking-state. Between being merged in nonduality and speaking of it as clearly as words allow, there is no causal relation but what may best be described as sheer reciprocity uniting distinct levels: it could in a way be compared to the reflection of a person's mood in his countenance. But this power of conveying the truth, without effort and in perfect harmony with a seeker's aspiration, is not possessed by all those who have cancelled the ego and met the true self. That one alone who by nature is eloquent and loving, has realized non-duality and dismissed the body, who therefore has nothing to gain or lose by teaching, yes, only that rare being is able to talk of reality and so guide others.
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Those who know it do not speak about it.
Those who speak about it do not know it.
Tao Te Ching - Verse 56

oldwolf · Mar 24, 2021

During the latter years the body starts failing and the pull of the other side, the needed return to spirit land, allowing the Maya of the physical turn of the short timer here immersed in the physical to drop away.
Spirit encapsulates the physical, not the other way around. Meaning that spirit creates the physical. Spirit is the home suite and trumps all. Even as we return to the physical to create experiences to aid in Growth for the Whole, we come home to spirit for rejuvenation, Balance, and perspective from Spirit. Most lose sight of the fact that spirit is continuity, having no limits, our home ground. The programs of society, the desire to accumulate; the sirens call for the gratification of the physical senses, entices; and the memory of Spirit seems more imaginary than real for many.
For some, the memory perspective of Spirit is retained in greater degree, but for the sake of growing beyond, for experiencing anew; the full parameters of Spirit demanding focus and clarity - a balance available by the oversight of Spirit is not normally fully available during the time immersed in the physical. How each reacts to the immersion into the Maya of the physical depends upon the level of awareness and development they have chosen to bring along to achieve the goals they feel are needed for both universal and individual growth.
If the choices made allow us to reach older age, a time when children are grown and on their own, when the desire to accumulate and accomplish more with the personally narrowing limits of an aging body drops away - a time when our focus is drawn to what comes when physical life ceases. The cloak of the wandering pilgrim returning from the time immersed in the physical, heading back into the Spirit; is recognized and encouraged by many philosophies. For some few, it is a time when the veil is thinner and a spiritual perspective becomes more important and focused on.
Many seekers seem to become more illusionary in the physical realms as they turn and focus on Spirit.
Then - transition - the physical drops away. We return to our spiritual heritage. And from that more inclusive perspective choose the settings for our next immersion into the physical to help us learn and grow to become More, to grow Beyond.
Hence our preoccupation with deciding what to let fall away and what to keep. We Know we bring nothing but our Being and how we let our reactions shape us back to the immersive Whole in the realm of Spirit. We are preparing ourselves for our re-immersion into the full of Spirit as the physical atrophies and Spirit becomes the focus.
And we Grow On.
Fly High and Enjoy, though sometimes more trying, the rewards of the higher consciousness are not ephemeral.
Disclaimer: Though we may think we know - we don’t.
Life is an opportunity and becomes what we make of it
May the Light of Love guide our Way
Namaste {my spirit bows to your spirit}
John loboduro (oldwolf)
nomadhermit Waysharer

Tyrsonswood · Mar 24, 2021

Good to see you back, oldwolf

MeAgain · Mar 25, 2021

THE PROBLEM OF RELATION

1. Consciousness and the Brain.
The relationship between consciousness and the brain is often expressed as the relation of mind to matter, matter having location and mind none. We can ask, for example, when but not where a thought occurred. Where did such and such a thought occur? could only mean, Where was the body at the time of the thought's occurrence? Matter, in other words, is spatial and mind as such temporal. But what is mind as such? It is merely a notion based on the remembrance of successive thoughts, each thought being the consciousness of a something conditioned by time and space which as such is purely sensory: and this notion occurs only when there is identification with the material body (XIX, 3), itself a notion based on the reremembrance of innumerable percepts. We need in consequence trouble ourselves no more with the problems of mind and matter. We have only to consider sensory perception, a sensory perception being the apparent combination of subjectivity and objectivity. The objective side of a sensory perception is an occurrence in the brain. Being as it were material, it is devoid of consciousness. It is unreal, for without consciousness it could not appear (XXIZ, note i). The individual's claim to his being the perceiver, though seemingly subjective, pertains also to the objective, unreal side (XX, 2). What principle is it then that gives reality to sensory perceptions? It can only be the conscious, subjective side, which remains unaffected by the objective: this principle cannot be other than nondual consciousness. Non-duality and the brain are therefore the ultimate terms for every possible relation. That they are mutually exclusive is evident.
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Thoughts occur in time and space in relation to the body only.
As time is always the now moment any thought that is considered has already passed and all such thoughts are based on sensory input which is conditioned by the apparent relation of the thing perceived and the perceiving apparatus. As such we have already determined that both the thing perceived and the perceiving apparatus are in reality one and the same, as neither exists without the other.
As perception occurs in the brain it is a material occurrence, just as a camera records a material image on film. Therefore just as a camera and film lack consciousness, so too the perception in the brain lacks inherent consciousness.
Consciousness of the brain's and senses' activity must come from without just as consciousness of the image on film must come from an observer, not the camera or film itself.

wooleeheron · Mar 25, 2021

The reality is, the evidence indicates we inhabit a Goldilocks universe, and 42 is as good as it gets. That means existentialist angst is related to your immune system, and should obey the epidemiology of infectious diseases, spreading according to how strongly people insist everything must make sense. Our conscious thoughts have proven to physically emerge from our unconscious emotions, indicating a self-organizing system, and that our universe can be considered simultaneously allegorical and metaphorical. In other words, reality is stranger than fiction, so get over it already!

Deleted member 314630 · Mar 25, 2021

MeAgain said: ↑

Back in the daze we'd drop a hit, smoke a lot of dope, then sit in the Polish Club drinking ten cent beers and discuss the nature of reality.
Fun times.

So in this thread I'd like to jump into this topic and see what we can discover.
We'll see how much interest there is.
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Reality is just a crutch for people who can't deal with drugs.

MeAgain · Mar 27, 2021

2. The Brain as the Locus of Objective Experience.
Intellection, imagination, cognition, conation, emotion, identification, egoism, association, the retention of sensations, and sensations themselves, are all inextricably related and the several aspects of normal human cerebration, in which the individual and the totality of his objective experience as such are comprised. Everything that can be called the object of consciousness is therefore an occurrence in the brain.
3. No Direct Interrelation of Percepts.
In saying that the different aspects of objective experience are inextricably related, I was referring solely to the complex processes of cerebration. The percepts that result from these processes, such as general and particular notions of sensory objects, of time, space, movement and change, are not directly related amongst themselves: but each percept is directly related to the single consciousness that runs through objective experience like the string through a necklace. When consciousness appears as memory (XXII, 3), it is then that percepts seem to be connected amongst themselves. Even so, their apparent connection is in and through consciousness.
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All experience occurs in the brain, sans involuntary bodily functions, and as such are related by the activity of the brain.
The notions that arrive from these experiences arise independently of the experiences of the brain and are not related to each other...except by that which is other than the activity of the brain; that is pure consciousness.

MeAgain · Mar 29, 2021

XXV

4. The Problem.
An individual's objective experience constitutes for him the whole objective domain. If we attempt to fathom this intricacy from its own level, we shall certainly be disappointed, for the requisite detachment will be found wanting. And if we regard it from the standpoint of the conscious self, which is the sole invariable factor in all our experience, objectivity as such will vanish. As already stated (XXIII, 3), when I see myself as the witnessing consciousness before which an object has appeared, I cannot at the same time see the object: consciousness alone will then be apprehended, not, however, as the witness, but as the nondual self. This is tantamount to saying that the apparent relation between consciousness and its object must always remain unintelligible. To consider the two as distinct but complementary is not to see them truly: and to consider one of them apart from the other is to evade the issue. The problem of their relationship, as it stands, is therefore insoluble.
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Our experiences are our entire reality. When we consider this reality from all that we can know of that reality, through that reality, we cannot consider it apart from that reality and so anything outside of our experience cannot be known.
Likewise if we view our reality from outside of that reality our individuality would vanish as all we can know is our experienced reality.
The two views are not distinct, yet they are complementary, they are not apart, yet they are not the same.

MeAgain · Mar 30, 2021

XXV

5 . The Dissolution of the Problem.
Although consciousness cannot be cognized as an object, it is spontaneously apprehended as the self and appears, when objectivity seems to appear, as the witness of all that is objective. Therein lies the solution to the problem of relation. The many and various aspects of objective experience occur one at a time, each, or each group, of which, is the present object of a single witnessing consciousness; and the transition from witnessing to nondual consciousness is immediate and spontaneous, once the standpoint of the witness has been firmly grasped. We shall spare ourselves an immensity of fruitless speculation if we boldly acknowledge that the ostensible relation between consciousness and the brain is an impossibility; and that the problem as it stands is delusive, like the assumption in which it has its origin, the assumption, namely, that a duality of subject and object really exists.* Why any relationship between consciousness and its object is an impossibility will be explained in the following chapter: we shall discover that they are two aspects of an undivided and indivisible reality.

*To call the problem delusive because one of its terms is unreal is not to disparage those who are concerned with explaining all that is explicable about an unreal objectivity and in particular about the complex processes of cerebration. But there must be no confusion of levels. One such confusion is implied, for example, in the commonly held hope that empirical science will eventually explain everything, whereas empirical science has nothing whatsoever to do with considerations of a metaphysical order. Illustration: the chemist who found his neglected wife weeping and hoped to discover the cause by sampling her tears!
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Consciousness exists not as a function of the brain, as the functions of the brain can be observed consciously by the very individual whose brain is in question. Consciousness itself appears as the witness of all that is experienced. Once this is known it will be recognized that consciousness does not originate in the brain and that subject and object are not separate entities.

MeAgain · Mar 31, 2021

XXVI
NON-DUALITY

1. The Disparity of Consciousness and Objects.
The seeming relationship between consciousness and its object must always remain unintelligible, for if we view them as distinct entities, they are found to be wholly disparate; and if we regard the object from the standpoint of consciousness, its objectivity disappears (XXV, 4). This difficulty has often tempted shallow or lazy thinkers to reverse the true position. They say, since we cognize the object directly and seem merely to infer the existence of an intangible consciousness, that the former alone is real and the latter a convenient figment. I hope to have made it clear, in the course of this work, that such a stand contradicts the considered evidence; and that consciousness is no more an invention than the luminary whose light makes visible the page before us.* All that has been said, or will be, regarding this matter, may be summarized as follows : that unique principle whose existence cannot be doubted, whose being depends on no other, and which is immutable, that alone is to be called real.
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* If you see the page, you do not see the luminary; and vice versa.
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Subject and object viewed as separate entities must be different. Yet viewed from the standpoint of ultimate reality, no object has an inherent existence.
Wrong thinking views the object as real as it alone has substance and subjective consciousness has no tangibility. Therefore consciousness is a product of objective reality.
However as objects change and consciousness does not, only consciousness can be real as only that which doesn't change has inherent reality.

MeAgain · Apr 1, 2021

XXVI

2. The Inadequacy of the Written Word and Metaphysical Realisation.
No one who reads this work can ignore the inadequacy of language, or of any other mode of expression, as a direct vehicle of metaphysical truth, for metaphysical truth in reality is pure experience. I do not mean that this purely private experience of metaphysical truth cannot be communicated at all, as indeed it can through the spoken words, the gestures and the living presence of one who has realized non-duality. I mean that the written word by itself can do no more than help to dissipate the wrong knowledge that beclouds the sun of the true, at least, for one who has not heard the truth from the lips of a sage: it is then no more than a preparation. But at the same time, one who has been blest by such a presence may well derive pleasure from reading authentic books, a pleasure not unlike that which is to be enjoyed on hearing noble music again and again: a fresh aspect may always appear. And in any case, the truth bears repetition. In this attempt to give my readers a taste of what by nature is indescribable, I have all the time been aware of using words such as consciousness and self in a manner that violates the standards set by common usage, in a manner that may even want consistency. 'Consciousness' and 'self ' normally denote a personal, subjective principle. We have seen, however, that duality is an illusion, for the notions of a subject and an object are each separate events which recur in memory (IK, 5). Knower and known are each the objects of an impersonal principle which I have variously called consciousness, the witness, the principle of consciousness, nondual consciousness and the real self. These terms I have used in order to establish a bridge between individual experience as such and non-duality. No others could so well have served the purpose of this method: and I must assume that my readers have a ready capacity to look beyond the letter to the spirit. Then, what might easily be taken for so many contradictions in terms will become, on the contrary, aids by which the illusion of duality, the bondage that results from identification, and the unthinking use of a language based upon it, may be finally discarded.
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Ultimate truth can only be known by direct experience, words cannot exactly convey that experience as words have inherent biases and multiple meanings depending on context and individual interpretations.
Written words even more so as they are remotely viewed from the originator and are not subject to interpretation as they are being formed.
Regardless, they do provide a guide to what an experience of Ultimate reality entails. However, with this in mind it must be remembered that in attempting to describe Ultimate Reality, or to provide a path to an experience of Ultimate Reality, written words may be used in contexts which are unfamiliar to the reader. This may entail seeming contradictions which, in general, are stated in an attempt to cause one to look beyond the common meanings and understandings of the words or concepts in order to see beyond the everyday illusions of duality.

MeAgain · Apr 2, 2021

XXVI

3. Direct Knowledge.
In order the better to understand the statement that, although consciousness cannot be known objectively, it is spontaneously apprehended as the self (XXK, 5), let us consider the assertion, I am, whose basic meaning cannot be communicated directly by any mode of expression: it is something that all experience. That l am I know for certain; and everybody knows that he is. Should anyone, however, feel inclined to doubt his being, we may ask him who it is that doubts. His only positive answer must be, I do: and this means, I am conscious of the kind of objective experience called a doubt, which therefore he transcends. And should he hope to evade the issue by observing that I do, if I exist, he will not have succeeded: the subjective personal pronoun singular always reflects the state of unconditioned being that transcends individuality. Thus he who genuinely doubts that I am doubts only that he exists as an individual; and doubting is a characteristic of individual experience. He has intuitively guessed that the ego is not an entity but lacks the knowledge which would enable him to see it plainly.
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We all know we exist, "Cogito, ergo sum".
To doubt one's own existence is to call into question the act of doubting itself.
If I doubt I exist, who is it that doubts that existence?
Others may doubt that I exist but that is not the same as doubting that they themselves exist.

The act of doubting one's existence must be accomplished by seeing beyond the individual in question.
Again, as the teeth cannot bite themselves, doubt of one's individuality must come from beyond the individual.

Tyrsonswood · Apr 2, 2021

"I think... I think I am..... therefore I am... I think."

MeAgain · Apr 2, 2021

Tyrsonswood said: ↑

"I think... I think I am..... therefore I am... I think."
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"Of course you are my bright little star!"

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