The Nature of Reality

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by MeAgain, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    You made the statement, "Conscious thought has been documented as physically emerging from our emotions." I'm asking for you to explain that statement and the words contained in it. I don't have to explain anything.
     
  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    We can only be conscious of what we can remember. Actively conscious. While we can react to stimuli without being conscious, as in reacting to a hot stove, we are not conscious of our reaction unless we can remember that reaction. Likewise, we can only remember what we have been conscious of.

    Objects are never perceived without being filtered through the senses.
    The apprehension of the external world and our notion of it is formed by our reaction to sensory input.
     
  3. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    Bullshit, you gave a rhetorical question, and don't even have the guts to admit it.
     
  4. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    What was the rhetorical question?
     
  5. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    What was the rhetorical question?
     
  6. WOLF ANGEL

    WOLF ANGEL Senior Member - A Fool on the Hill Lifetime Supporter

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    For me:
    Reality is that which we are living in the moment.
    When we wake in the morning - at 06:00 - Go to work at 07:00 - Start work at 08:00 and go through the actions, and suffer the consequences of all that is around us thereafter.
    - - -
    The circumstances of a change of routine differ as to what happen show that timing is all.
    And there lies the answer of life and ones living of it , = TIME
     
  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    SENSORY PERCEPTION AND THE NOTION OF OBJECTS​
    Time to get down to meat and potatoes.
    As Wolf Angel stated, "Reality is that which we are living in the moment."
    But the question remains, who are we and what are experiencing in that moment?

    The senses sense, or become aware of that which they sense. They cannot be separated from what they sense.
    But what they sense has no real materiality other than what the senses can detect. Something has been sensed, but it isn't a separate, independent object. Without the "form" given to what is sensed, no object exists, only formlessness. The senses impart height, width, depth, color, smell, etc. to what is being perceived.
    Nothing can be perceived without the senses and any seemingly independent object disappears if it cannot be sensed.
    And by extension, if nothing is perceived, there is no one to perceive it.
     
  8. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    reality has nothing to do with the meaning of words. it has nothing to do with words at all. it has somewhat, but no absolute direct connection to what we perceive.
    it is what is there when you're not looking. what is still there whether anyone agrees about it or not. its what's still there when no one, yes even absolutely no one, hasn't an effing clue.

    reality is totally inert to anyone's perception. it cannot be directly perceived at all. nor written in any book. it can be measured, observed, even felt, but does not itself, depend on any of those things. nothing to do with our percieving of anything.

    all this kind of discussion completely misses the point of reality, being rather a close cousin to the unknown, which is unknown by a single self aware being, and yes, that may even include nonphysical ones.

    its simply not subject to any of us, no you, not me, and as for gods, well whatever they know is known only to themselves as well.

    you can learn little bits and corners of it, by doing research in the broadest meaning of the term. but you can never in any absolute sense 'know' anything other then the greater or lesser probability of what you think you are knowing.
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I would say reality can be perceived, but what is perceived is filtered through the senses and social constructs.
     
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  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    ".....there is at no time a stimulus external to the senses." That doesn't mean that something (which is not a thing until sensed) doesn't exist. Merely that the "something" that is sensed is not external to the senses. Both the senses and the "external" object exist together.
     
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    All sensations occur in the brain due to changes in the brain cells. But the sensations are felt not in the brain, but in the sense organs themselves.

    And now we define reality: Reality is that which does not change.
    In dreamless sleep there is no change. From the view of the sleeper nothing happens, no time transpires.
    Dreamless sleep and its related states is the realm of the immutable self which doesn't change but experiences change. Being unchanging an individual, cannot experience reality, defined as that which doesn't change, as the individual s always changing...except for his or center of unchanging reality.
     
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  12. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Objects only exist when they are perceived. When they are perceived they are thought of. As we can have only one thought at a time, we can only perceive one object at a time. As such we believe we perceive more than one object at a time due to memory. Rapid thoughts about rapid perceptions lead us to believe the perceived "objects" exist simultaneously. They do not.
     
  13. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    that is simply not true. no existence of anything depends upon its being perceived.
    everything that is known, got along just fine before it was ever learned, or even imagined.

    while other absolutes may exist, there is no such thing as any knowledge ever actually being one.

    we simply do not live in a universe that has anything else to do with us, then our existing in it.
    even though it is also true that we interact, and often by negligence, with the biosphere of our one planet we live on.

    i'm sorry but i simply do not experience existence as relationships between awarenesses, but as being surrounded by landscapes and the diversity of their environments.
    people exist in them, but only as a tiny fraction of everything else that does so as well.
     
  14. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    Once you realize you have perceived something it is already "the past", cognition takes time. Nothing exists in "the now"... We are all living in the past.
     
  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Existence is. Of course existence doesn't rely on someone observing it.
    But objects, as such, only exist when sensed. as Tyrson said, everything you perceive is already gone. Let's look at a table. We observe a certain manifestation of atoms and due to many factors that I won't get into now we perceive a table. Light strikes the table, some of it is absorbed, some is reflected into our eyes. Light travels at 186,282 miles per second and it takes from 50 to 13 milliseconds for messages to be sent from the retina to the brain.
    What this means is the object you perceive is already gone, it has already changed. The finish has faded in the sun and the wood has become wetter or dryer, it has expanded or contracted, etc. we don't notice the changes but the table we perceive is different from the one that exists in the now moment.
    Ah, you say but it's still a table! No, the thing you perceive as a table is really only a continually changing conglomeration of atoms that we identify as a table. It is a learned notion, nothing more.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  16. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    this to me makes no sense to claim that reality has more to do with observation then existence.
    that would imply that we are the reason for other things to exist, which makes no sense either.
    not in a universe so vast there cannot help but be other sorts of selves to observe it.

    i'm sorry but to me, reality is existence, regardless of observation.
     
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  17. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    Every leading theory that has lasted worth a spit for the last century has incorporated yin-yang push-pull dynamics. The self-evident truth speaks louder than words, but physicists don't get paid to say nothing makes any damned sense. Assuming 42 is as good as it gets, its a universal recursion in the principle of identity, and it is possible to prove to anyone's satisfaction that, ultimately, nothing makes any damned sense according to modern science.

    Metaphysics don't cut it, which is why we still don't have a theory of everything, because we require networking systems logics, which are roughly four times as complex.
     
  18. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    The catch 22 is you can't prove "existence" without "observing"...

    And by the time you realize your observation the existence is already changed...
     
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    To repeat, without perception nothing can be said to have length, breath, aroma, solidity, weight, etc. To be clear something exists, but it can not be differentiated from the sum total of reality until it is perceived and then given particular attributes. And remember the attributes that are given are always given to which was perceived in the past, as the very act of perception takes time, however short, and that which has been perceived has already changed.
     
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    THE BODY AND THE SENSORY FACULTY​
    One's body is only apparent through the senses. One's body is only seen to be present when other objects are sensed.
    Commonly man only knows of his or her awareness through the awareness of other objects. If other objects are not present, neither is the body. This leads to the false idea that the body is subjective, outside of the mind, in reality there is no separation.
     

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