the moral atheist

however. It's no use arguing creator/non-creator. But you state the great triumphant and final argument of avery atheist: "Who created the creator?" Well the last time i had to talk about this, I kept saying, "Santa Claus!" I know it's a rediculous question and a rediculous answer.

but if the word "create" doesn't mean anything there is no creator.

there is no way you, ()CCAM, smart though you certaintly may be, can impart meaning on anything in a meaningless universe. So your definition of "create" doesn't exist. Sorry. God does though. I know Him. He says we're good friends. I asked him this morning to prove to you that He exists, If He Gives A Shit. I don't.

BUT I want you to know that I BELIEVE that the word "create" means something. It was created by the Creator who also loves you and gave you and words infinite meaning. And who created Him? Who created you? whell I guess you'd have to navigate your navel or arrange an orange or navigate your average navel orange through your BLOOD from the distance of your heart to your anus where I'm sure somewhere along the way you'll find your head. (Just kidding!!@!)

lost of love.

 

So you can use the word create because it is convenient for your argument, but Occam can't because you don't want him to because you can't answer him in any meaningful way? How very, very big you.

 

Smlchance

And of course..The god your religion created can. ?

Occam

PS..Occam does not speak from 'smart' ..Occam and george have a moron thing we do..[see below]. And EVERYBODY can do it..[if they choose]

 

Yes! Isn't that wonderful? There's really more shit on earth and in heaven than we can imagine. And God created it just for fun. Isn't that great?

 

i can 'create' a fire by striking a match. a fire can start when particles in space spin fast enough and hydrogen ignites. what is wierd abou teh word create that it implies god? humans create somethings. we done create everything. why must everything have a creator? it is childs logic so say since we can crete things with conscious meaning, all things are created with conscious meaning.


god should never equate to morals. this is what gives religions so much power. god should be a matter of what you believe crerated us or gave us our meaning. morals should be about what is best for the world. that is, as phantom said. dont impose on other peoples lives for one. the golden rule is a very strong one.

atheism means disbealief in a god. personally, i live and think like an atheist. that way, once all facts are oncovered, if there is any 'god' it would be exposed. but if your looking for god, youll see him anywhere. as christians and the like say. just because you think you see 'god' doesnt mean you see reality, and dont jsut percieve a god.

i think the starter of this thread confused stheism with existentialism. aheism has nothing to do with moral codes it simply concerns god or not

 

cre·ate (krē-āt') pronunciation
tr.v., -at·ed, -at·ing, -ates.

1. To cause to exist; bring into being. See synonyms at found1.
2. To give rise to; produce: That remark created a stir.
3. To invest with an office or title; appoint.
4. To produce through artistic or imaginative effort: create a poem; create a role.

adj. Archaic.

Created.

[Middle English createn, from Latin creāre, creāt-.]

In other words: to make something out of nothing. If you don't believe that this universe was brought about out of nothing you can not use the word "create." Your definition is not only meaningless but contradictory to the original. You can't change the meaning of create to fit your dream wish fantasy that the universe "has just always existed."

The fire you brought about was "created" by elements that had to come from somewhere, or else they were not created. In which case nothing was created in which case, good luck trying to find your way home after the resurrection.

 

No.

They use the second definition, which has no connotation of arising from nothing, while you use the first, or perhaps the fourth.

 

You are correct. For the snurgle to exist, you must first have a blueprint of the snurgle, then you must create the snurgle. In this case, essence precedes existence. Blueprint >> construction >> existence.

I was refering to the status of man. You exist, we know that much. For you to become what you are you must act. In this case, existence precedes essence.

In the Christian view YOU have always existed, and what YOU are is a result of something that has always been.
The snurgle is you, and the inventor is God. I object to this proposition.

 

I wouldn't even go that far. The first definition doesn't say "from nothing"; that is added later. It's very telling when somone wishes to limit their opponent's language while they remain limit free of course.

 

creation doesnt mean make somethign out of nothing.

youve misinterpreted the definition

thats 'nothing' in the essence of the 'something'. but not in the essence of physicalty.

no one and nothing can create something out of nothing, except the supposed god. there is no instance recorded or observed in the universe where something was created out of nothing.

it is a fundamental law that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed or tranferred.

 

the word itself implies the creation of an 'object' but not of matter itself.

an idea could be created but the idea itself is just the manipulation of resources that already exist. chemicals in the brain, in their most simply put form

 

THE first thing is, those who deny a CREATOR limit the language of not only their opponent but themself~! They limit everything. Check out http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=create
the oldest definition of create comes from the latin "creatus", pp. of creare "to make, produce." We have loads of definitions for words, from make to produce to create. When I say there is a Creator it means there is a being who created the word create. NOT YOU.

Sorry to get worked up about this especially since I really don't care about whether you believe in God or not. I only care about the truth. And you are lying to say that I am limiting my opponent's language. I'm only limiting the amount of bullshit I have to deal with. Including this damn forum.

God bless you ALL.

 

yes the ones who invented the word would have been some dudes who were standardising their language in some pre-civilisation time.
they created a word out of nothing in your terms. but what they really did was string together sounds that they could make with their mouth to find a way of representing a concept. they didnt create the sounds, they manipulated the air in their voicebox and the chemicals in their brain.

its all about manipulation.

when the word was created, people didnt really have much concept of natural formation of things. therefor the original 'definition' of the word would have come from a differnet context of understanding to what we know and so would have been applied differently.

just like in physics you dont say that an electron 'wants' to go to a proton, though when the word was created it would have probably been appropriate for any object compelled by its own nature.

 

Why and how? Additionally, I don’t believe that I’ve ever heard Occam deny a creator.

And?

And?

Oh, a version of the ol’ you-can’t-use-logic-to-deny-the-existence-of-God-because-God-created-logic-and-by-denying-God-you-deny-logic argument. Easily answered: my god, Buto, created your god. So, by denying Buto, you deny your own god. This line of reasoning quickly devolves into an idiot’s circle (unconstructive, thus, false).

Then don’t say “create” is meaningless when Occam uses it unless he agrees with you.

 

praise LORD Buto

 

OK!

That's fine. How bout this. Anyone who gets proof today of either the existence or non-existence of God, please let us know! Since this Sunday is the Orthodox Easter, maybe God will work great miracles in tribute to the honorable Russians who don't necessarily insist on being diametrically opposed to everyone else but often come pretty damn close.

(to wit: the sign language sign for God is the same all over the world EXCEPT in Russia. hmmmm. strange.)

 

i hope your not making out that russian = orthadox.. :S

 

smlchance

Ok..as a bit of imagineering..

Prove this false

ANY phenomena...things that happen..require the existance of a reality.
you know..time/space/mater energy exct exct.
So occam exists and a reality exist for occam to be 'real' in.
And there s no human who nows how reality really works or what it
really is.
Thus
It's only common sense....duh...that it is possible that this reality is manipulated.


So..It is NOT POSSIBLE that there is NO POSSIBILLITY OF A GOD.



Occam

 

When a glass of watter is dropped it will hit the ground, And in this way the world works. So we must fall in accordance to what works best foreveryone. And stay away from that which does not.

 

I enjoyed it even though I couldn't quite follow it!

You believe that I am but how do you know that I am? Who am I? Who are you? You'd have to trick me to convince me we weren't one.

lol&LOL~!!!