The minimum wage

I know, I was just using it as an example of how we can all vote on things directly now. As for mob mentality, Still keep the supreme court around so if a law voted into law is unconstitutional and attacks a particular group,it can be overturned.

 

The first underlined string was meant to produce the second underlined string. So you seem to understand what I was getting at.

 

Now you lost me .... what do you mean when you say "produce the second string"?

 

Rjhangover

19th century political liberals once supported economic liberalism (free market liberalism, classical liberalism, lassie faire economics) because they believed it undermined the political authority of the few (because it opened up the market to more people).

Then many political liberals realised that economic liberalism had led to an economic authority that curtailed ‘liberty’ as much as political authority did and began to turn against economic liberalism just at the point when wealth began to realise that economic liberalism granted them more power in the shape of economic authority.

So political liberals became seen as ‘left wing’ opponents by the ‘right’ because they wished to undermine the power and wealth of the few. But political liberals were often in opposition with left wing political groups/party’s and many on the left see ‘liberals’ as being on the ‘right’.

In the UK at the moment we have a right wing government made up of Liberals and Conservatives.

In an American context ‘liberals’ are mostly seen as ‘left wing’ only because much of left wing thought has been systematically purged from US society over the last 50+ years. So without a real left wing the centre right liberals are seen as the left wingers.

This is why many outside the US believe that Americans have two right wing parties with a centre right Democratic Party and are more right wing Republican Party.

It is also why many Americans see left of centre parties in other countries and think they’re hard left socialists.

Thing is that you have to remember there is a difference between the economic liberal and the political liberal.

*

[edit] - Here is something to think about in relation to above – Our major right wing political party (the Conservative / Tories) have hired Democrat campaign adviser (and Obama’s ex deputy chief of staff) Jim Massina.

[FONT=&quot]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23551323 [/FONT]

 

Billy

Never existed –

In Rome voting was strictly limited and the system was an oligarchy.

Greece in ancient terms didn’t really exist the geographical area was made up of lots of differing city states often in competition with each other, some had forms of democracy others not. Aristotle made a note of 158 differing constitution, and wrote about how they functioned (only the ‘Constitution of Athens’ survives). And you have to note that Athenian democracy was limited not only by sex and class but by location and availability. You had to be there to vote and so many who worked didn’t go especially those who lived or worked outside the city and many just didn’t bother.

And that is the big problem with direct democracy many people do not have the time inclination or knowledge to participate – representative government is meant to be about voting in a ‘specialist’ to work on ‘your’ behalf - they should have the inclination (they have put themselves up for office), they are give the paid time needed and that time should be about gaining the knowledge to work for the best.

 

Never mind, it wouldn't be worth the time to explain. The original post you referred to was purposely intended to be facitious.

 

Indie

But is it a ‘burden’, right wingers often seem to argue that ‘government’ is a burden but mostly that argument doesn’t stand up to scrutiny and cannot be defended from criticism. And the ‘burden’ has been reduced radically already -

Fall in top rate tax
1945 - 94%
1970 – 70%
1982 - 50%
1990 - 28%
2010 – 33%

On rising pay awards -

Rise in top levels of pay
In the 1950’s CEO pay was 25-50 times that of an average worker that has risen to 300-500 times by 2007.
A bigger gap than any other developed nation.

You have argued in the past that you think Federal and even State governance is too far removed from ‘the people’ to know what is going on and now you want to distance it further by taking it overseas?

So how would a regulatory agencies regulate and inspect from elsewhere? Wouldn’t this just make it easier for corporations to manipulate things in their own interests, I mean who is policing and inspecting the foreign regulators, whose laws would be used what is the jurisdiction…

 

Your unbiased knowledge of politics makes it worth reading your posts. If Obama wasn't black, most of his agenda would have been passed by the GOP. His philosophy is definitely center right. But here in the U.S., 33% of the country is true liberals, mostly registered INDEPENDENTS such as myself, Ralph Nader and Bernie Sanders. The trouble for independents, is the political system is rigged against all but democrats and republicans. So independents are forced to vote for one of those two in general elections. I voted for Ralph Nader four times, and he only got 3% each time because he wasn't allowed to debate or get federal moneys like the dems and repubs. So this past election, most of us liberals voted for Obama to stop the fanatical right from getting yet another nut job like Shrub in the WH. Yeah, it's voting for the lesser of two evils, which is still voting for evil. But that's what America has come to.