No, not at all. The Illuminati falls at the top of the pyramid. Low-ranking Masons are not in on the secrets, whatsoever. That's why they believe it is a well-meaning organization founded by Christian men, when in actuality it's a satanic organization rooted deeply in the occult. Only those at the top of the pyramid know what it's really all about. It's the same way with government, media and big-business, where the people working at the lower-levels of the proverbial pyramid have no idea what goes on at the top (Illuminati) levels, where all the manipulation occurs. I should note that Albert Pike, one of the forefathers of Freemasonry, was also one of the founders of the KKK. If you still think Freemasonry is a Christian-based "organization," just look at the quotes I provided from Manly P. Hall earlier in this thread.
matt, with all due respect, please be careful about throwing around the words "satanic" and "occult". please remember you now have a friend who has been a practicing witch for 14 years. do you think i am satanic? the pawn of a conspiracy? it's ok, man, no offense taken. actually, i'm used to it. modern witchcraft, especially in its more "traditional" forms, owes a lot of its ritual structure, phrasing and terminology to masonic fraternities. if they are deeply rooted in the occult, well, what's the harm in that? so is wicca. do remember that "occult" refers to "hidden knowledge" or "mysteries"; it refers to western mysticism. my father is unaware of it, but i have read some of his masonic material; the occult symbolism that i've seen has to do with balancing energies and really isn't that much different from those of the golden dawn or the OTO or any of those other groups. the masons do not claim to be a "christian" organization; indeed, gerald gardner, the founder of modern wicca, was deeply involved in co-masonic groups (specifically, the fellowship of crotona, a rosicrucian order stemming from the french lodge of masonry; not english freemasonry, although again, terms and rituals are similar), and i know many other male witches, pagans, and a santero (santerian priest) who are active masons. i would not be at all surprised, however, if what goes on in the upper levels of masonry is quite different and kept apart from what happens in the lower levels. i do not like the masons, i don't entirely trust them, but i am not afraid of them either. i would be more concerned about their social and political pull than any of their occult activity. and i don't put conspiracy past any group with that much influence, either. but occultism by nature is "secret", only in the sense of "mysteries" or mysticism. it is not something to be afraid of. real power simply does not work like that.
Masonic Presidents: 1) George Washington - 11/4/1752 Fredericksburg Lodge No. 4, Virginia 2) James Monroe - 11/9/1775 Williamsburgh Lodge No. 6, Virginia 3) Andrew Jackson - Harmony Lodge No. 1 Tennessee 4) James Knox Polk - 9/4/1820 Columbia Lodge No. 31, Tennessee 5) David R. Atchison - Ex-officio president: March 4, 1849 member: Platte Lodge No. 56, Mo. 6) James Buchanan - 1/24/1817 Lodge No. 43, Pennsylvania 7) Andrew Johnson - 1851, Greenville Lodge No. 119, Tennessee 8) James A. Garfield - 11/22/1864, Columbus Lodge No. 20, Ohio 9) William McKinley - 4/3/1865, Hiram Lodge No. 21, Virginia 10) Theodore Roosevelt - 4/24/1901, Matinecock Lodge No. 806, Oyster Bay 11) William Howard Taft - made a mason at sight 2/18/1909. affiliated Kilwinning Lodge 356, Ohio 12) Warren G. Harding - 8/13/1920, Marion Lodge No. 70, Ohio 13) Franklin Delano Roosevelt - Nov. 28. 1911 14) Harry S. Truman - 03/18/1909, Belton Lodge No. 450 15) Lyndon Baines Johnson - (EA) October 30, 1937 16) Gerald Ford - May 18, 1951, Columbia Lodge No. 3
YOU have the burden of proof because YOU are the one making the outrageous claim. As one of my favorite writers and fellow skeptics Carl Sagan always said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
That's funny, since the masons have been around since before the American Revolution, whereas the KKK was formed in the 1870s. Anyway, even if that were true, it has little relevance to your conspiracy theories.
Albert Pike started up the KKK cuz the Masons weren't a bunch of bigots. He made up new degrees, and basically took what he liked and left what he didn't. Freemasonry was around centuries before his birth, which you should know. So, he was by no means a forefather of Freemasonry. He became a high ranking Mason who defected when he couldn't change their rules to suit his bigotted version of Christianity. The defamatory claim that it is Satanic is a joke. How can you even say that? The Shriners Hospitals don't sound like the kind of thing Satanists would do. Henry Sinclair of Scotland circa 1398 is a better choice for a forefather of the Lodge, though it was just new in name only, even then. Where are the Bushes, and Reagan in your list of Masonic Pres.'s?
I am basically skipping to this page because there is too much to read in one quick sitting. Lots of interesting information though. Pressed Rat, a quick question. Have you read anything about the origins of the Poor Knights of Christ of King Solomon's Temple, St. Bernard of Clairvox, the excavation of Solomon's Temple after the first Crusade, and their subsequent trek to Ethiopia, perhaps to Lalibela? relation to Parzival, the gral, etc.? James Bruce, Scotish Rite Freemason's trip to "the origins of the Blue Nile"? Also a freaky thing for all of you Dead Heads out there (and I am one!). I used to live in Sonoma Co., home of the Bohemian Grove. Back in 1998, it was reported in the Sonoma Independent (now called THE BOHEMIAN) that The Other Ones (the remaining members of the Grateful Dead) had played for exclusive members at the Bohemian Grove. The next week, the Independent published under "corrections" only that they apologized for printing the article, not that any information was "incorrect"! Weird ehh?
I wasn't making outrageous claims, just saying they aren't necessarily false... Besides, who is to say they are outrageous? That seems to simply be how you percieve them...
damn everyone beat me to the KKK being 1870s.. well in the lodge here there isnt the slightest mention of christianity. their texts speak of a greater power, but is completely open to be taken however one wants to. belief isnt compulsory either. im with blackguard, the satanic claim is just laughable.
Ok, well I mean those making those claims, not necessarily you specifically. Ok, well let's examine the possibilities BEFORE we consider the evidence. If you had never heard of the masons and heard the following statements, which seems more likely (remember...this is even BEFORE you examine the evidence) Statement A: Freemasonry is an old, service-oriented fraternity for men past the college age. It is weakly rooted in religion, and was largely influential among the Founding Fathers. Statement B: Freemasonry is an evil, secret society that secretly controls the world, associates with a 2,000 year old man, and associates with a race of reptile-men. Remarkably, they have managed to fool the world for centuries without any non-tabloid reporters asking questions. Even BEFORE examining the evidence, Statement B is obviously more outrageous than Statement A. That alone doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong...just that it requires more evidence than Statement A. Now AFTER we examine the evidence, it becomes more obvious that the extraordinary evidence required of Statement B simply does not exist.
You are right, I was wrong by stating that Pike was a forefather of Freemasonry (I probably meant to say forefather of the KKK). I was very tired when I wrote that post. What I meant is that Pike was one of the highest ranking Freemasons. I don't know how I got that mixed up with forefather. Everybody makes mistakes. Chill out, BG. I do know what I am talking about.... I think.
If you knew what you were talking about, you'd back up these conspiracy theories with evidence (links to tabloids don't count), and remove that disgusting icon next to your name.
Freemasonry is a fraternity that started with the actual stone Masons Guild of old times, The masons were the builders of King Solomons Temple, King Soloman wwas the first Grand Master off Masons. He provided the money, Hiram King of Tyre Provided the men and Materials for the contruction And A man named Hiram Abiff supervised the work. As the years and centuries went on and the great cathedrals of Europe were built, the " craft was declining in it 's Numbers. It was decided upon to initiate good men of stature and prominence to help the order survive. These men were not actual stone Masons, And this is where the term Freemasonry comes from. meaning free from the craft. The object of the degree's and intiations are to use the symbollic ideals of building a strong structure ,are now used to build a strong Moral character in it's members. there are several "spinoff " oreders of Masonry once the third degree of Master Mason is obtained. Thes are the Scottish Right Which is made up of 33 degrees ( 32 of these can be actively petioned for, but the 33rd is bestowed upon you). and the York Rite which consist of 18 degrees, ending with the Knight Templar Degree. After completing either or both of these rites A member may petion for Membership in the Ancient Arabic order of the Nobles Of The Mystic Shrine. This order was not a part of Freemasonry until the early 1900"s . I will go on with more info later, but right now I am tired of typing. And yes I am a 32' nd degree Mason and A Knight Templar, And A shriner, I am a past MAster of my lodge of MAsons, And a past Officer of the Grand Lodge of my home State.
Exactly what "evidence" are you looking for? There is ton of information out there in books and on the internet. Why do I have to gather information for you when you can do it yourself? And I don't read tabloids. Never have, never will. Tabloids are fictional, and I was never big on fiction.
so you know all about what pressed rat is talking of a mason of the 32'nd degree dosent get fed lies anymore
