the Journey

Papasmurf

.....something this good should be printed in some sort of publication!

EXCELLENT writing; open, honest, and a piece that easily resonates with many men here.

With certain denominations saying that masturbation is a HUGE sin (I never bought that), this sort of "sets the stage" for a religion that is not at all gay or bi friendly I recall, years ago, hearing the distubing story of some violent, bigoted holy-roller bigots (somewhere down south?) that called themselves "Bash Fags For Jesus".

IMHO, preaching hatred in the name of the Lord is the ultimate blasphemy.

Sad, sickening, and frightening.

BE YOURSELF........tread waters slowly.......take things at a realistic place, and treat others as you wish to be treated.

Being a gay or bi male in this insane world is NO walk in the park for many of us; trust me, I know.

With me, sexual orientation means nothing; if you are a good, decent person, your sexuality means nothing to me.

Then you have religions that "accept" gays ONLY if they remained celibate.

Long ago, I read in a book where an ex-RAF WW2 Airman was quoted as saying "There s no greater than religion than truth."

That simple, yet profound statement really made an impact with me.

Papasmurf, again, thank you for sharing such an excellent, well-written "account" of your life up to the present.

I have MUCH respect for honesty.......

 

Thank you as well, Papa Smurf, for sharing your journey. Your writing about how you finally needed to come out and live the truth of yourself to everyone is very inspiring, and your bravery can enCOURAGE others. It's a special gift. I wish you all the best in your continuing journey, wherever it may lead.

As I've written elsewhere, I have felt that I have lived with a homosexuality that my mind has masterfully buried in a complex repressed place in my unconscious. As with all homosexual and bisexual people, society's demonization of same sex love, attraction, desire, and activity has forced my repression, and even turned it into internalized homophobia. Then many different circumstances and life events have forced it to manifest itself in strange ways.

I truly wonder whether my lifelong failure with girls and women, with constant rejection of my asking them out on dates, was actually due to this repression sabotaging any possibility with the opposite sex. When finally I did fall into a romantic and sexual relationship with a woman, when I was 27 years of age, one that began instantly without courtship, and in which I finally had sex for the first time with a woman, that woman kept breaking up with me. After three years, the third break up drove me into a deep depression that led to a 5-month road trip around Canada and the US.

It was then on that trip, three months in, when I had finally made peace with the break-up, that I began having adult gay desires and fantasies. I had never been so sexually excited in all my life, and it finally forced myself to drive to San Francisco and the Castro District to explore my gay feelings. The whole experience there was both terrifying and exciting, but most of all surreal, but in a positive way, like a new world was opening for me.

It was after that trip that I then began acting on those desires, fantasies, and love of gay porn, seeking to fulfil those desires and fantasies, which included everything sexual and romantic that was possible with a guy. But the only thing I knew to do, or let myself do, was to visit different gay sex venues like porn theaters, video arcades and their gloryhole booths, bathhouses, back rooms of gay bars, and many years later, gay sex clubs and gay orgies. But every time I was with a guy, I only desired oral, and even then lost all desire and attraction to the guy I was with--the complete opposite of fantasies. But back at home again all my desires, fantasies and enjoyment of gay porn returned full force, until they became so powerful that I had to seek out a real man again, again in the same places, again only to be disappointed with myself and my feelings again. This continued to happen over 21 years and included over 200 men. There were only 6 exceptions where I had desire for the guy, and felt passion engaging in oral sex, but oral only. No other desires were there, despite everything in my fantasies. Again, in hindsight, I feel that the only explanation is this complex repression of my gay side and internalized homophobia--especially because of how my real life feelings changed in the future.

And throughout this I still desired women, and especially my fantasy of getting married, having children, and a "house with a white picket fence". So I continued to try dating, and was finally successful through speed dating especially. That's when you pay for the services of a company that hosts rapid 5 or 8-minute dates between perhaps 10 men and 10 women during an evening, and at the end of the night each participant would write down on a piece of paper the persons of the opposite sex they would be interested in going on a real date with. The speed dating company would then contact those who matched in desiring to go on a first date with each other.

As it turned out, I seemed to be a desirable candidate in these speed date encounters, so I got a lot of first dates. But whatever I did on the first date, whatever vibes I was giving out, whatever loss of confidence I showed compared to in those speed dates, lead to almost no women wanting to see me again. I did manage to go on a handful of second dates, and only 2 third dates, but nothing beyond that. And only on one of these perhaps 40 real dates was there a quick good night kiss that a woman allowed me to plant on her lips at her door. Most couldn't wait to get out of the car when I drove them home (assuming we didn't just meet at the venue), barely waiting for me to say goodbye, let alone walking them to their front door. It totally didn't make sense, because truly, you ask anybody who knows me, I'm a really nice guy and a great conversationalist, not bad looking, and very considerate of others, kind, and loving.

But every such encounter, and the other attempts through other straight singles clubs and community dances that I participated in, added to my growing feelings of failure with women. And every such failure led me to ever more powerful gay feelings and more attempts at having success with men, with only more failure. It really was a total cognitive dissonance.

It was only at the 21 year mark when I had anal feelings for a real guy in a bathhouse for the first time, and lost my adult gay virginity, as a top, in a sexual experience that was more powerful and fulfilling than any I had had to date (of course there was only my first girlfriend and a female prostitute once many years later to compare to), that changed everything for me. I immediately stopped all anonymous encounters with guys, and instead started using gay dating apps to meet real guys for sexual encounters in each other's homes. And almost all of them were extremely enjoyable. I felt I had succeeded in finally opening up some of those repressed gay feelings, and letting my gay side come forth in a much stronger way. More connected to my true self. I was finally able to proudly called myself bisexual, instead of bi-confused. It was still only sexual, despite fantasies of romance and love with guys, but it was wonderful sex.

But it would not get to flourish, and perhaps evolve, because three years later I fell in love with a woman and began what became a very turbulent three-year relationship with her. She broke up with me many times, and I even a couple of times from her. She knew about my bisexuality and all of my past activities (I had to tell her the truth before we had sex), and every time we were on a break my gay desires, fantasies and enjoyment of gay porn skyrocketed, though I never met a real guy to have sex with (I can't say the same for her). Towards the end, when we were only FWB, I was pretty much only thinking about sex with guys. Often while we were having sex I had to think of sex with a guy in order to orgasm for her. And whenever she was pegging me (which she initiated because she loved the dominant feelings it gave her), all I could ever think of was how I wished it was a real guy.

When we finally broke up just before the pandemic hit, I finally felt free and very very excited to go wild in my exploration of my gay side like never before, and finally losing my bottom virginity as well. I was so hoping for everything with a guy, or guys. But the pandemic curtailed that. But I still had to say that all my sexual encounters with guys since losing my gay virginity many years before had still been only sexual, and even then only about the pelvic area, and not guy's whole body, let alone person. But all my fantasies, like they have been for these last 30 years, have always included romance, love, having a boyfriend or even husband.

But then during these last two months, two additional events occurred. First, I developed emotional and romantic feelings for this straight male acquaintance, who became my platonic friend. I was hoping for a romantic and sexual relationship, but it turned out he was straight. But finally for the first time I had those feelings for a real guy, and I could not have been happier to have them, even if they were unrequited. And secondly, I had sex with a guy recently and finally loved the whole male body, every aspect of his body--his very masculine, hairy, male body (I've only desired smooth bodies up until now)--for the first time in my life. I now feel like my deeply repressed gay side is no longer so, and is much more open and free, and becoming more and more integrated with my conscious self, and my identity. I am feeling more and more gay, and so happy about that. I'm still attracted to women, but have had no desire for a sexual relationship, let alone an emotional and romantic one, with a woman since my break up with girlfriend #2. Now, more than ever, I'm only interested in men.

If you made it this far in this long exposé, you may see how my personal journey has really been about unrepressing a very powerful gay side of myself, and perhaps actual homosexuality. But I feel that the process, let alone the journey, is not done. We will see how things unfold. But at the very least I am looking forward to a full gay relationship with another man, and perhaps finally feel I'm myself. I feel like I'm the poster boy for coming out to oneself!

 

Hey buddy. Good to see you on here.

 

I just found your thread here. Thanks for responding to my thread which is similar. Guess I should have looked further before posting mine perhaps.

I completely understand where your coming from.

I’m so glad other formerly religious people are posting. Your journeys help me with mine.

 

Wow! This is exactly me! Thanks for sharing.

Thank you and others so much for sharing. It’s really helping me sort out my thoughts and feelings. It’s really good to read from others further along the road than me.

 

My journey started later in life. Mid 30s
Married my HS Sweetheart lived in a small town and never saw the signs of my same sex attraction. Looking back now I actually see a few signs.
Anyways I’m my late 30s in a sex starved marriage I started going to adult book stores and always had guys knocking on my door. I finally let a guy in and he gave me head. I ran for my life when I came and felt shamed of what I let happen.
Well curiously started watching gay porn and then tried more with a guy.
Met many men on adult sites and realized my same sex desires. Finally met one guy that I would see for several years and he really brought the gayness out of me, sex was incredible with him. Well shit hit the fan as I got caught by my wife. She didn’t want a divorce but we had some very difficult times but have worked through it.
It’s been 2 years since I’ve had gay sex and I really struggle with it as a still crave it. Deep down I realize I’m gay but to many complications to get divorced. I have no idea what my future is and no idea if I can continue to refrain from the same sex desires.

 

RisingBi, don't worry to much about the lack of desire for anal. The reality from what I read is not everybody wants it, nor do it alm the time fir those that do.
Look up the definition of "Side" that Dr. Joe Korte helped push. You might like reading some of his blogs and books?
"Is My Husband Gay, Straight or Bi?"
Don't let the title fool you, it's for men as well.
He's a gay therapist who specializes in men and couples where the man is confused about his same sex attractions and experiences.
It's helped me understand I'm not gay, never was, never will be, but range from "mostly straight" to bi.

Some good books, but likely not describing you are:
"Mostly straight : sexual fluidity among men" Ritch C. Savin- Williams

"Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men" is a 2015 book by Jane Ward

 

I’ve listened to many of his videos yet I still ain’t sure what I am.

 

Papasmurph, your welcome. I think many of us have read a lot of articles and blog posts trying to figure things out.
I didn't want to leave people of color out with the straight white men book above. It was written to cover the topic brought to prominence by this book and on Oprah about black men.

"On the Down Low: A Journey Into the Lives of Straight Black Men Who Sleep with Men" 2004 by J. L. King. King has since come out as gay per Korte.

I look forward to the day there is less discrimination against gay and bi people (& the whole spectrum).
I might have inaccurately claimed being bi years ago, if not for the workplace, social, family and dating stigma attached to it.
Especially the dating stigma by straight and even bi women against bi men. I saw a poll a few years ago that only 28% of women would date a bi man!
The good news is now, no matter how hard the religious and right wing conservatives try to turn back the clock, society is changing to be more open and accepting for each generation. And you can't put the genie back in the bottle!
As much as I want to try to avoid labels, it's been hard, as I've tryed to understand what I am.
For now, I think I best fit under the label
"Mostly Straight" & hetero-romantic.
I hope these books can help others struggling as to where they fit in.

 

Thank you very much Ray for your reply. But you misunderstood me or didn't read further, because my lack of desire for anal with real guys for the first 21 years instantly disappeared in 2013, and ever since I have enjoyed it very much. I'm actually in a place now where I feel I am mostly gay, have no interest in having sex with women anymore, though I do still find them sexually attractive, and look forward to having a close gay friend in and out of bed, if not a boyfriend with romance and love. In the Niagara region where I live, though, it's more difficult to find, unlike in a larger urban centre. Most guys here are just looking for NSA sex, whether they're gay or bi, and the gay guys, whom I prefer now, just want unprotected sex--a little risky even if you're on PrEP, which I'm not. I'm strongly thinking about it, though, because I do crave sexual intimacy, i.e. intercourse.

 

I am so sorry, MJ, for your predicament. I can't completely relate, because I've never had the complication of actual marriage. But my gay desires certainly caused problems in my last long-term relationship with a woman. And because of that I will never again have one. From what I read in forums like this one, there are a lot of married guys out there in a similar predicament. You at least have the courtesy and wisdom of no longer acting on your gay desires, which I'm sure brings you great pain. I admire you for that, because cheating just involves too much suffering for everyone involved. Many prayers for you to have a peaceful mind throughout this and for your circumstances to eventually change to allow you to live your truth.

All the best,
Gary

 

I have often wondered why bi men (knowing their "gay" desires are far too strong to ignore/repress) even marry.

Surely, this creates much pain to both the HUSBAND and the WIFE.

At least, a SINGLE bi male is not in a "commited" relationship,one way or the other.

If he is VERY fortunate, he might have a STEADY girlfriend and a STEADY male partner; of course, if BOTH understood the situation in full,things might be able to work out.

Even though I have been totally celibate my entire life, I DO know that being BI in a largely straight world can, indeed, be QUITE daunting, frustrating, and confusing (as it is for gay males) I think that we ALL have to remember that we are ALL (gay/bi/straight) SEXUAL beings.

To deny those desires often causes much emotional and mental stress.

Even though I live a VERY solitary life, and, therefore, have NO experience whatsoever, I know that being a man who is married and BI can, indeed, present so many problems for all involved.

It CANNOT be easy, to be sure.

Here again, I believe that honesty and maturity play an important part.

Forums like this, I believe, serve a very valuable purpose, allowing gay and bi males to "vent", without fear......

John

 

I've never been into anal. Tried it once many years ago, and didn't like it. Neither giving or receiving.
Love giving and getting head.

 

Never been into the gay "lifestyle" either.
Not putting anyone down, but feminine men or women wanna-bees don't do anything for me.
If I wanted to be with a woman, I would do that.
I like men who are men. Masculine, regular guys are what turns me on.
He doesn't have to be super good looking, like the Marlboro man, just a regular guy, lean and clean.

 

Agreed, 100%.

"Twink" types were always a major turn off for me; ditto, feminine men.

I prefer men to be MASCULINE, like myself.......

 

Thanks!

 

Anytime!