The Improbability of God

WoW, You finally understand how a Christian feels when they try to present the evidence to a non christian..... they refuse to listen and then close their ears.

 

Well Velvet I did not mean to bore you, but could you tell me what you have studied about Bible prophecy? Perhaps you could give a few examples.

 

Yes, and this study warned physicians that after the initiation of treatment, a patient's overall state of depression may worsen. However, that has not stopped Psychiartrists from handing out medication to youth. Look at the number of children who are on Adderall for Attention Deficit Disorder. Most of the people I know, whom suffer from depression, are on medication for it. I find it very difficult to believe that millions of people around the world have a chemical imbalance. I bet you will find experts beyond my few years of a degree major who will agree with that.


The human body, in all honesty, was not meant for medication. Regardless of vigorous testing done by the FDA, there is never a guarantee when a medication becomes avaliable for market retail. Over the past six months there have been many drugs being pulled off of the market because they have caused either severe damage or have been fatal. If you look at a Tylenol label, for example, you will see that taking more than the recomended dose can lead to liver and kidney failure. However, there are many, many mediciations out there, that despite whether or not you overdose, still have an effect on your lungs, liver, and kidneys. That isn't even taking into account the rare cases where people have gone blind, had their flesh almost eaten entirely (just caught a special on the Discovery Health Channel the other day) or many of the other effects one has suffered from taking prescription drugs. Doctor's do not possess the capability to make a medication that is 100% guaranteed in safety. In his book, "Commonsense Rebellion" ( pages 98-107), psychologist Bruce E. Levine, Ph.D says, "In 1994, an estimated 104,000 Americans died from medications that were administered properly, making this the fourth leading cause of death."

There is no such thing as a safe medication. Doctors cannot make any guarantees.

 

What I have studied and a few examples. Hm.. well.. there are a few great articles online that pretty much reflect how I think about it. Please read and get back to me about it:

Click here
for an article that disproves a few prophecies as a reaction to someones statements, just to give an example.

Click here
for an overview of false prophecies, broken promises and misquotes in the Bible

 

The uninformed should not talk about that which they don't know.

Humans are primates, nothing new there. It would stand to reason that Lucy was a primate too...

Neandertal was not a human with a bone disorder, that idea has been refuted for over a century. Get with the times.

Piltdown man is a fake, and has been recognized as one for decades. The other fakes and mistakes were also sorted out. A few errors doesn't make all the other skeletons and evidence wrong, in fact, it makes us more wary and careful to be sure they aren't.

 

Nothing I say is going to change your mind... you believe what you want to believe... and have fun in that belief... choosing to shun anything that challenges your view of the world.

I on the other hand am going to spend my life forever improving myself, and should I find out something new that contradicts what I knew before, provided there is enough hard evidence to support it, i'll then take that on board too...

(PS, i'm not going to highlight specific instances, but a lot of what you've just said is complete bullshit, i'm just sorry that you believe it)

 

what he said...

 

Yeah. Do you think vitamin deficiency occurs in people who do not have fortified cereal and/or the proper diet? I wonder how many people said limes were bad for you back in the day... you scurvy dog... I find it very easy to believe that people have some kind of chemical imbalance. Unless, of course, scurvy is a curse sent from God to inflict people who refuse to eat stuff containing vitamin C.

That's a very intellectually dishonest statement. Some human bodies require medication to heal. Does this mean that all of the lives spared by medications (such as penicillin) are actually lives that should have been lost, because the body is not meant to take such medication?

The important question is: Is the damage caused by the drug less than the damage the drug prevents or cures in the majority of cases?

I think if a majority of people live a better life because of a drug, with only a small percentage effected adversely, the drug is a good thing. Many people benefit from Prozac and the other next generation SSRIs.

A doctor makes an informed gamble when he prescribes a drug that helps a large percentage of patients and harms a small percentage of patients.

Same goes for religion: There is no such thing as a safe religion. Priests cannot make any guarantees (revised to add: they can, but they are not credible).

 

I got a better idea, how about you tell me what you believe, and try speaking for yourself. I never send someone to another adress because I know what I believe. When you send someone to another site, that is telling me you can't think for yourself, and you don't know what you believe. I have heard all the crap about false prophecies and the problem is, the one's writing this stuff don't know what their talking about either. So give me your best shot, I waiting.

 

Could you tell us what others you are talking about, because most have been rejected. A recent statement by a so called expert in the field stated that the fossils that decorate our family tree are so scarce that there are still more scientists than specimens. The remarkable fact is that all the physical evidence we have for human evolution can still be placed with room to spare inside a single coffin. Were not talking about a few errors. And Ivanhoe's study in 1970 came to the conclusion the Neanderthal specimens did have rickets. Please show me a more recent study.

 

Amanda you don't even consider the evidence put before you. You make bold statements with nothing to back them up. You use your feelings rather than your mind. You will not consider any hard evidence that contradicts your beliefs because you will not even comment on the evidence I have put before you. Facts are not important to you, and that is why you quote people like David Icke. You say a lot of what I have said is bullshit, well refute it then. Show me why I am wrong and you are right. The fact is Amanda, your not interested in facts. Just your belief that is based on no facts. You can't highlight specific instances, because you have no facts. You come here with nothing but your empty rhetoric. I believe it, because it is true.

 

What, the bible? don't make me laugh....

I don't believe you need evidence to back up opinion, but whatever

Because the do called evidence that you're all putting forward is all located on christan websites, something which makes me very wary to accept it on face value, after all, the church has a HELL of a lot to lose when people find out it's all bullshit

WHOs facts?

Oh for fuck sake, that was a a joke, a message posted to see what reaction it would get... I even explained later in that thread that I thought Icke was a loony

I'm no doubt sure that you're correct, i'm no scientist, and I admit that.. sure, i might run in shouting my mouth off from time to time without the propepr evidence to back it up a lot of the time, but I don't need to, because the people who are good at science then come in and post the evidence needed.. i admit it's not the best way to work, but meh.. i'm better at debating Philosophy than evidence.

I'll give you an example, evolution... I don't know much about it, but I know that it's the comonly accepted view by most of science, and that's good enough for me... sure, i can't give you specific examples of evidence because I don't have it... but i know there is enough of it out there to back up what I'm saying.

 

Actually, science has proven that one's diet can be the sole source of their medical issues. Take the low fat diet, for example. This has been a staple in trying to beat heart disease. While it seems to be proven that a diet low in fat (because in reality, you need fats for healthly cell growth) has not been a useful aid in lowering cholesterol. However, many doctors still suggest it. However, some endocrinologists have found other ways. France happens to be able to boast about being the 2nd country with the lowest percentage of heart related illnesses. They have a method of food combining wich utilizes nutrients from fresh food, in certain combination forms. This has been lowering cholesterol without the use of medication. The use of food combing (which also eliminates refined sugars from your system), has been very beneficial to those suffering from Diabetes/Insulin Resistance as well. In fact, on the Insulin Resistance side, by lowering your insulin, medication is proved not to be needed. There are many herbs on the market that can cure certain things just as well as factory produced medication. Attention Deficit Disorder was thought to be brought on by a possible chemical imbalance. However there have been many statements lately this these:

"There is no objective evidence or proof anywhere in the peer-reviewed literature, that there is any neurological (brain) abnormality in children (persons) said to have ADHD, or that there is anything physically, chemically, or biologically abnormal, at all."​

(Dr. Fred A. Baughman Jr. to the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations)​

"There is no definitive lesion, laboratory test or abnormality in brain tissue that can identify the illness [ADD/ADHD]"​

( Dr. David Satcher, 1999 Surgeon General's Report on Mental Health)​

In fact, there is a list of things that have been said to cause ADD/ADHD:​

(Allergies, exposure to toxins, mild to high lead levels, flouride, high mercury levels, carbon monoxide, hearing and vision problems, emotional stress, yeast infections, intestinal parasite, Streptococcus (strep throat), hypoglycemia, hype/hyporthyrodism, genetic disorders, absense seizures, trauma, temperal lobe seizures, head injuries, spinal cord problems, Malnutrition or improper diet B-vitamin deficiency Iron deficiency Lack of exercise Lack of sleep Viral or bacterial infections Early-onset diabetes Heart disease Brain cysts Early-stagebrain tumors)​

While this information has been presented, doctors still use Aderall/Ritalin as a tranquilizer. Interestingly, (and sadly) between the years of 1990-2000, over 569 children were hospitalized, 38 of them were life-threatening hospitalizations, and 186 died from Ritalin. According to your statement, I guess the 700 children affected by this disease doesn't outweigh the, "possible", patients it may help.

Many, many children are still taking doses of this medication they do not need and no one is aware of how it will effect them in the future. If they took a closer look at depression, they may find that these very issues are causing so many people to be depressed (more obviously the issues of nurture). I would be willing to bet that if depression was looked at more indepthly, they would find that most Americans are being drugged for no reason, just like the Attention Deficit Disorder children are.

People are being given medication without a signifigant source of counseling. Therefore, many patients are being drugged.

That is not what I said at all. I never said that someone's illness cannot be contained by taking medication. What I did say was that the body was not meant for medication. The body was not made for synthetic drugs. That is why there are so many underlining side effects. If the body was meant for this medication, there would be no side effects. People who take Gluchopage for Diabetes/Insulin Resistance, have a chance to develop liver failure. People who are currently on Depakote must take a blood test every two weeks to monitor their liver. So on and so forth.

According to some sources, drugs are not taken off the market if only a few cases are represented in which a drug had an adverse affect on patients. Several cases must be implicated before a drug will be removed. Sadly, it seems that many people have to suffer/die before a drug is announced to be more harmful than helpful. There are drugs on the market today that may be fatal or signifigantly harmful, yet, not enough cases have been reported so the drugs is still being manufactured. The numbers I have seen and read do not show a small percentage.

When I was younger, I was diagnosed by my family doctor as having Attention Deficit Disorder. However, as much as he argued with my mother (a nurse), and insisted he was an, "expert", my issues were due Insulin Resistance. When I was in high school, I was prescribed diet pills by my endocrinologist. This was the medication called, Phen-phen. As you know, the drug was pulled off of the market after several people had developed heart valve problems. I was actually one of those people. Thanks to God, it was reversed. I was also on Rezulin for Insulin Resistance when it was pulled off of the market in 2000 after 61 deaths had been attributed to it's use. Again, thankfully, I was not effected.


If you read news articles or watch the nightly news, you will see that medication after medication is being pulled off of the market.

I have spoken about that quite a bit

 

The human body is a strange machine. I agree with Epiphany that it wasn't designed to take medication, to an extent. However, the body wasn't designed(in my opinion ofcourse) to take all the punishment it receives in this day and age.
The amount of chemicals, radiation and trauma the body receives nowadays is far greater than before and so we have to use some sorts of medication to counteract these. The body is unable to adapt at the rate we are progressing, so we have to do it artificially.

Personally I beleive that disease is natures method of population control, which we are defying. Imagine if there was NO disease and genetic disorders, how huge would the population be? Too much for the planet to sustain.

In the animal kingdom, animals with diseases tend to die off and not reproduce, thus leaving the strongest animals alive, which reproduce. So you get a steady population and the species continues to evolve as only the best genes are passed on.
By artificially keeping people healthy, I beleive we are going against evolution and are infact devolving(is that a word?) ourselves. We are spreading faulty genes around.
This does not, however, mean that I am against curing disease. It is not peoples fault for having certain disorders, they do not deserve to die, or live in sickness.

Ohh, I rambling.

 

This is what is so sad, there is no evidence, yet people like Amanda let other people do her thinking for her, and as a result, go through life believing a lie.

 

deleted post.

 

Yeah. You didn't have to add the actually to your statement- I was being sarcastic about the way you said 'medications' are not meant for the body. Vitamin C was a medication against scurvy, an essential micronutrient that was missing from the lives of those who had scurvey. A diet issue, if you wish. I maintain that everything we consume is part of our diet, even the micronutrients (or the toxins).

Coffee being one of them.

Or maybe its the lack of physical & mental punishment in todays society. People do pay more attention when you threaten them.

Yeah. My mom has MS. Dr.'s know less about multiple sclerosis as they do about AD&D. They still try to help though, in any way they can.

Out of all children who took the drug over a 10 year period 700 developed adverse reactions? Doesn't seem bad at all. Do you know that ~ 66% of the worlds population live in poverty (mind you, this is defined in developing nations, if they defined it by USA trailer park standards, about 80% of the world would live in poverty)?

Ok. I am not sure about every case, but I know people who benefit from ritalin. It helps them concentrate, etc. Of course, they can afford a psychiatrist that tests them over a period of time to determine which drug and what dosage would work best for them. The problem is not the medicine, it may be the way it is prescribed. Although, you do know that when a new "wonder drug" is released into the market, doctors want to prescribe it so that people credit them for healing their ailments. A doctor will do anything they can to cure you, even if it is shear mumbo jumbo.

Nah. People are depressed because they have shitty lives. If they looked at their life and were like "Wow, this is awesome!!!" they would not be depressed.

No. They are being drugged for a reason, because drugging someone makes them complacent to their servitude.

Before there were drugs, there was organized religion. It taught the populace to have faith- to believe they would live in a better place after they died.

Ok. I guess the way you are saying it does not sound logical to me. I'd say that if someone is going to suffer if they do not take medication, that they should take the medication, even if there is a slight risk of an adverse effect.

Well, some drug company executives are criminals: they promote products and try to suppress information about the products adverse effects (mostly because of the money they spend on their yachts and stuff- they can't afford to not sell the product to the unsuspecting public).

Sounds like you are one of those people that a jury consultant would call "Prejudiced". To bad that these things have happened to you. Blame God for the bad things in your life, never blame a person. Definitely don't thank God for taking away a bad thing that God caused (unless you thank God sarcastically, like "Thanks alot, fucker").

Gotta go...

 

Sorry dude, but it's true..there is very little fossil evidence that we have evolved from monkeys, it's popular belief because the press has a habit of sensationalising things and then putting tiny little *has been disproved* articles in the back of the newspaper when it's been proven totally wrong.. The proof we believe we have of evolution from monkeys is that we are both primates, and out DNA is very very similar..but that's about it.. Looking at fossils is mainly conjecture- there's no real evidence in terms of fossils that we evolved. There is getting to be more evidence that other species have evolved, for birds especially in NZ because our country was so isolated from the world for so long, and even more so because a few of the islands off our coasts have the same animals but with minor differences, these animals have been totally isolated for about the same time as the mainland's birds..stuff like that.

 

even believing in evolution and the brilliance of it's processes as i do, i don't just buy every claim made by it's scientists.

 

"It says the secret is hidden right before your eyes. so naturally everybody studies the paintings and sniff's out all of the clues to try to put the puzzle together. some of them go so far as to go out on worldwide scavenger hunts.. looking for the right key, or combination thereof.
I said here, after hearing it somewhere else, that there is one definite in this world, one certain.
"The more you look, the less you know"
so I kinda quit looking past the surface.
and came to the realization that your life, this life, really is nothing more than a reflection of yourself. You choose how you respond to what you see. You choose how the events of the day will effect you.
For the most part, You are looking at and doing either what you want to do, or what you have to do.to maintain the kind of lifestyle that you have created for yourself. All of the changes in your life that you are looking for are going to be made, or procrastonated by.. none other than , U.
so, if you can accept that, or you already believed that you were in control of making your own choices and decisions...
what I'm about to say could give some of you a reasonable explanation and location of the God you are looking for.
this is the fun part!
Go outside tonight or whenever the skies clear up in your area and look at the light of stars, or other lights in the distance that would be a good contrast between light and dark....
focus on the glow or hazy part around the source and soon enough you should see it. at first is seems like light fragments or glimmers of light, it shouldn't take long for you to see the individual cells of sensations reflecting into your eyes. not because you're looking for them, but because they are there.
The same things can be found during daytime hours in all of your other senses, everything we 'pick up' or feel is through the friction, vibrations, or feflections of what we either come into contact with, or voluntarily absorb and percieve from the air. "

I might just need to get contacts or something,
at least get my sight checked.
Who knows, the depth of this universe and the portions of life surrounding us that we are able percieve might be different for each person.
but for now being able to recognize and enhance the light sound and friction vibrations that register or stimulate your senses, and realizing that all they(your senses) really want is to be aroused. for you to place your mind and body in a comfortable zone as much as you possibly can.
to appreciate what you can of your environment, even if most of your time is spent where you would rather not be... you can find something to admire or bring you some level of pleasure,
if not you'll probably discover or create a path to relocate yourself.

appreciate what you choose to occupy your time with because of the billions of places in the world you could be, who you are spending that time with and what you are doing to cause yourself and the others around you find stimulation in.. is completely up to you.

now go find something to play with ! (and try to avoid compulsive masturbation, especially indoors)