The Improbability of God

Care to elaborate? Since I have a couple of (solid?) arguments for saying such a corny thing...

 

I totally support what you said. I know that 50 000 children die each day for lack of food and basic medical care. And there is plenty of food and medicine to go around....
Also, I feel that if there is a God, it is way beyond our ability to understand, so i agree with you, we should focus on the here and now instead.

I sighed cuz it seems no one cares about the epidemic of tragedy in this world.

 

Ahhhh ok I'm sorry, I misunderstood, thought it was a 'negative sigh'.. I shouldn't be so paranoia

 

that was just something that I found and decided to read after Amanda_N got me in a reading mood (very rare occasion),
but it has gotten me to thinking, a little differently.

and since ya'll must have all the answers... I guess I'll just ask myself sommore questions.

After reading Darwins "IoG" angle, I pretty much came to the same conclusion as Pat-Man, he doesn't make any distinctions or clear up any misconceptions about anything other than something as vague as this:

"Things that cannot plausibly be derived from very different predecessors can plausibly be derived from only slightly different predecessors. Provided only that there is a sufficiently long series of such slightly different predecessors, you can derive anything from anything else."

That kinda summs up his whole article for me,
on the other hand, the link I posted, which at the time was far from what I would have considered as my 'hypothesis", is something that could be quite possible.

Why do you think we are who we are today?
We have a creator, or a source.and that's something that not many people can deny.
but at this point we aren't so much interested in where we came from, but more towards if that source has the ability to get us out of here before we have to simmer in our own 'mess.
The institution or introduction of religion to this world caused mankind to create a great and powerfull race of people, to create a machine that they are binded to.
and I'm just like the rest of you, contributing to the problem...
working to put money into a checking account so it can be distrubuted into the system, but it's the only way to stay on the road half of the time, and I'm outside, so I say I like it.

Would it be so horrible to believe that we came from an 'alien being' ?
Is your perception of God so that He has to appear as a normal Human, when obviously THE God cannot be one?

Are any of you so drawn back by the possiblilty that history is repeating itself and our creator has searched long enough for a source to come back to help them, that they decided to try to find out on their own so they could help themselves?
We are a part of someone's else system, and for some reason we are part of this system, or machine and it's almost like we were programmed to mass produce into a world of war that's running on self destruct mode.... and the smart people have enough faith to know that 'somethings' gonna come back and save them... or else.
If you'd ask many of them, 'or else what'.. they don't even want to think about it, much less discuss it.
none the less, I still consider them as smart.
they have very few 'worldly' concerns.

One more thing, about The Da Vinci Code, what are they really looking for?

It might just be code, or cells... everything.
I'm more interested in finding out what happens to the human mind if you identify or break through it. because I know it won't consume me.


Peace,,

and answer some of my questions since you know everything.please

 

First, you attributed the article to Darwin, but it was written by Dawkins.

Second, if we're from an alien life form, that solves nothing. Where did they come from? And why? Saying that just pushes the question back one or more steps, it doesn't answer it.

 

I think it would be great if life on earth (or at least intellegent life) was planted here by aliens... I don't know if I actully believe that view... but it's sure one that I like (even if only from a fantasy perspective).

 

If you think evolutionary theory proves that God doesn't exist or even conflicts with the idea of God, then you need to get these anthropomorphic fairy tales out of your head. The laws of biology, physics, and chemistry are how God works, God is not some giant magician shattering these laws to put one some kind of show for you and prove his greatness, God IS those laws, what you see is what you get. YAHWEH= it is what it is.

The debate over wheter or not God exists is a ridiculous one, perhaps the most ridiculous of all time. What we should debate is whether or not there is some kind of order that holds the universe together, that causes it to go through all of its natural cycles including planetary and lunar orbits and the more complex movements of the stars, to which almost everyone from Christian fundamentalists to astrophysicists would say "yes". the more we learn about the nature of the universe, the more we discover that things "check out", positive and negatively charged particles seem to always cancel each other out for one, and there's many more examples i don't have time to name here. The point is that God is a term that some people are comfortable using for this cosmic order and some are not. I am actually somewhat uncomfortable with it myself as it is very often misinterpreted thought to imply beliefs that I do not share. Basically, I just have to say that scientists and religious folk have a lot to learn from each other about the nature of our universe and we should all stop shouting and listen once in a while.

 

Well the bible tells us how life got started and the bible states that as we near the time of the end, people would not believe the scriptures. The Bible teaches that people would begin to believe in fables. The Bible also states that people would believe a lie rather than the truth. Aliens and UFO's are real, but they are more alien then you realize. The fantasy of the alien UFO's will become the reality of tomorrow. It will be a tomorrow filled with terror. Especially for those who don't know God.

 

Ehm.. and how exactly do you know that the stuff we believe are fables and that you know the truth and the real thing? Doesn't Satan mislead people? What is easier than shouting 'this is the only way, this is the saviour'.. that's like a sheep barking so you can find it.. maybe the true God isn't to be found by studying the Bible or by going to church.. by watching tv-ministers or listening so some guy preaching.. maybe the only way to really connect with the divine is to sit down, be quiet, clear your mind.. and then get of your butt and start helping people in need.

So.. again.. just out of curiousity (and not saying I have it right).. how come you think YOU are following the only right path? Because it says so in a book? That's a bit too easy now isn't it. And what's your deal with aliens? You think they are god-send lies to confuse humans? Well.. then your God sure does make a whole game out of it doesn't He.. complete with distractions by little green dudes with big eyes

Sorry, just woke up and not feeling politically correct But serious.. if you try to look through my sarcasm.. how do you feel about what I wrote?

 

If you are looking for answers I would suggest reading the Bible. The future of the world is recorded in it's pages. It states how at the time of the end the Jews will return to their ancient homeland Israel. They would take southern Israel first, and then take Jerusalem second. They have, just as the Bible said they would. Also the Bible states that Jerusalems East gate would be sealed up, and no man will walk through it until Jesus Christ returns to earth. It states that all attempts to break the prophecy will fail. The Moslems found out about the prophecy and tried to break through the Gate. On both attempts they failed. Just like the prophecy said they would. The Bible states that at the time of the end men would be able to destroy entire cities in one hours time. Jesus said if it were not for His return man would destroy himself.
In my 54 years on earth I have found the Bible to always be right. What I have also found, is this book which always speaks the truth, is the book the world most always opposes, and rejects. The Bible has much to say about America, which can be found in no less than three chapters. Without Christ, the future will be a terrible place.

 

Ok.. so you believe that everything in the Bible is right.. right? Or do you only choose to believe certain parts and neglect other parts by saying their are mre parabels?

How, for example, do you feel about the part in the Bible where Lot was willing to pimp his two virgin daughters?

4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." 6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
Genesis 19:4-8

Would you pimp you your virgin daughters?

Or.. what about all the classical examples.. the talking donkey, the man living inside the whale, the part where it says that a women should cover her head/hair at all times and men should not have long hair? Do you make your wife cover her head and hair when she goes outside? Why not? It says so in the Bible, that book you think holds the absolute truth..

Or do you follow the tradition, what the church tells you to do and to believe.. how they explain the Book to you.. instead of believing everything it says?

How can you put your faith in some parts of the Bible and dismiss others because it's 'inconvenient'? When Jesus was standing on top of a mountain with the Devil and overlooked the whole world.. was that the hand of men writing that, thinking the world was flat.. or was the the Holy Spirit being poetic?

And seriously.. what do you believe about aliens and ufo's? Are you really saying they exist and are here to confuse people?

Just curious....

 

i'm not a biblical literalist. there are those who are, and i can't speak for them. i don't believe in a 6 day creation or any of that. the bible, to me, is true because it's lessons carry through the ages, either by exploring the culture of a people, explaining their morality, and what did and did not work. taking stories out of context, like lot "pimping" his daughters, isn't really fair. lot put his god and his emmissaries before his daughters, who also probably put god before themselves. in return, god protected them. it's extreme, it's unpleasant, but it's still a valid lesson on this faith's morality. threaded throughout the bible is the calling to place god first. also throughout the bible are stories of man's inability to do so, culminating in the gift of christ. even great works of fiction contain some deeper truth. it' what makes them great, and in a sense, true. mocking it is to mock humanity. flippancy about it creates a barrier between you and a great truth. i'm not going to say "i'm not going to read 'to kill a mockingbird,' because it's so FAKE." there's still something to learn.

 

first let me say that I definitely regret never reading the bible, a friend delivered one to me about a year ago when I was having some dark personal issues with God, and while He was there He read one part outloud to me, the story of the Lawless One. and that was too much for me.
I should have read it as a child, like I was supposed to.

"Or.. what about all the classical examples.. the talking donkey, the man living inside the whale, the part where it says that a women should cover her head/hair at all times and men should not have long hair? "

The bible was supposedly written on real life accounts that happened about 2k years ago. If somebody was to do like a national geographic re-creation of life back then, it would be both porno and graphic.

"One more thing, about The Da Vinci Code, what are they really looking for?"

http://www.davincicode.com/

It says the secret is hidden right before your eyes. so naturally everybody studies the paintings and sniff's out all of the clues to try to put the puzzle together. some of them go so far as to go out on worldwide scavenger hunts.. looking for the right key, or combination thereof.
I said here, after hearing it somewhere else, that there is one definite in this world, one certain.
"The more you look, the less you know"
so I kinda quit looking past the surface.
and came to the realization that your life, this life, really is nothing more than a reflection of yourself. You choose how you respond to what you see. You choose how the events of the day will effect you.
For the most part, You are looking at and doing either what you want to do, or what you have to do.to maintain the kind of lifestyle that you have created for yourself. All of the changes in your life that you are looking for are going to be made, or procrastonated by.. none other than , U.
so, if you can accept that, or you already believed that you were in control of making your own choices and decisions...
what I'm about to say could give some of you a reasonable explanation and location of the God you are looking for.
this is the fun part!
Go outside tonight or whenever the skies clear up in your area and look at the light of stars, or other lights in the distance that would be a good contrast between light and dark....
focus on the glow or hazy part around the source and soon enough you should see it. at first is seems like light fragments or glimmers of light, it shouldn't take long for you to see the individual cells of sensations reflecting into your eyes. not because you're looking for them, but because they are there.
The same things can be found during daytime hours in all of your other senses, everything we 'pick up' or feel is through the friction, vibrations, or feflections of what we either come into contact with, or voluntarily absorb and percieve from the air.

now, I know that's probably not the solution to the code, but it does give a different perspective. We might not have one ioda of how small or tremendous we really are because nobody else has ever compared themselves to the biggest and the smallest things, to bee possible in this world.
Everthing you experience, consider, encounter, and feel in your mind and in your life is absolutely real. in your mind. in your perception. in your world.


"And seriously.. what do you believe about aliens and ufo's? Are you really saying they exist and are here to confuse people?"

I'm saying I do believe in billions of different levels of life and it's creations that are presently outside of my perception. I also believe in sentient beings, spirits, ghost, and angels, but I don't believe we have an 'Overlord' or a Starship captain that is in control and aware of our destination, or future.
I believe we might just be an infinity of singles and different combinations of almost invisible cells of life, fragile cells...
on every level.
Now,
If we can't even discover them, think about how frustrated they must be since we are waiting on them to be able to come and rescue us.


"First, you attributed the article to Darwin, but it was written by Dawkins.

Second, if we're from an alien life form, that solves nothing. Where did they come from? And why? Saying that just pushes the question back one or more steps, it doesn't answer it."

I've come to the conclusion that we it's very likely that we are all dealing with , or facing a situation that there will always be somethings that we don't know the answers too. Maybe none of the billions of life forms that exist throughout can pinpoint where they came from.
maybe this life , and all of the others lives that take place in this atmosphere are just going to have to settle for the easy answer... there is none.
unless you want to believe we come from the only recognizeable source of life we have, the earth.

If you have any questions or problems, send me a pm.... let me know.
I don't come here often.

 

Everything comes on it's right time, moment and place in my experience.. this was just your right moment.

so your friend is God? Or what's up with the capitals?

That didn't answer my question..

I must say you have a very fascinating view on life.. but I'm still kinda confused.. do you call yourself Christian?

 

i knew a pastor who told me that when a person works god's will in your life, they essentially become one with god. how to put it, they stop being their own will and become god's. i'm not sure if that's what he means, but i think of that every now and then.

 

I believe Lot attempted to give His daughters to the mob. That would not of been my first choice, but that is what Lot felt he should do. I can't speak for lot. Yet if I was going to make a phony religious book, I could of painted a better picture. The bible tells it like it was, and as it is. It never pulls any punches. The talking donkey is funny. God can do anything. Some years ago a friend of mine who said he was a Christian suddenly turned his back on God and walked out of my life. I remember how bad I felt about that. Well I was taking a shower thinking about it when I stepped out of the shower, as my foot touched the floor suddenly knowledge came into my head and said. "Tom, if you want to pray about it in another language you can." I came from a Baptist back ground, and I did not understand what that was all about. Yet I thought, what do I have to lose. So me being me, I got my tape recorder turned it on and began to pray. To my surprise the language was not my dialect. I prayed for at least two hours. The next night a friend that I had spoken often to about Christ happen to come over. I told him about what had happen to me the night before, and he said he would of liked to of heard that. I told him I recorded it. He was shocked that I actually did that. He asked to hear the tape. When I played the tape back to him, he looked at me and said. "Now I know, everything you have told me about Jesus is true." Shortly after that he became a born again Christian, his brother became one, and so did his sister. If God could use me I'm sure he could use a donkey. When Jesus was standing on the mountain and the devil showed Him all the kingdoms of the earth. It is an assumption on your part as to the perspective that vision appeared to Him. When the Bible speaks about a covering it was Paul who was telling the people of that time how they should dress. Paul always stated when it was his opinion or Gods command. In that text it was Pauls opinion. If it were God's command many of the Christian would be wareing coverings today. I don't go to church anymore because I work as an engineer in a hospital every Sunday. Fact is I never got much out of the churches I attended anyway. Did not see much different from those who attended and those who did not. UFO's are Demonic. They will be used in a big way when the Anti Christ shows up. When I was 3 or 4 years old God gave me a vision of that man.

 

The Bible is not like any other book. The Bible writes history before it happens. Christ Himself fulfilled over 300 prophecies that were written hundreds of years before He showed up. The Future history of the world is recorded in the Bible. No other religion has anything like this. These prophecies have been ignored by the world and the church. UFO's are spiritual, and evil. They are not the smart boys from the next planet, that can't keep their craft from hitting cows or fields. Arthur Keel who is not a believer said it well. He is one of the most noted UFO researcher here in America. He stated that the more he stuided the phenomenon, he himself was tossed into the world of demonology. Contact stories are some of the most eye opening.
People who claim to be in contact with UFO's often state that their crew will touch on world religions. They say they are all true, but when the name Jesus Christ comes up in the conversation, the beings become very upset, and blame Christ for all the ills of the world. One of the best books on the subject I have read was from Keel, called, Why UFO's. In the end, the Devil will get mankind not to look to God for salvation, but rather to look to the space brothers to come. The world is already being prepared for what the bible describes as the great deception. If you know Christ you will see through this. Sadly most people will believe this hook line and sinker. This all ties in with the anti Christ to come. When I was three or four years old God gave me a vision of this man. Do not take my word for this, check it out for yourself. It took a long time for me to understand all of this. The truth is out there. My only claim is that Jesus Christ and His word is the truth.

 

What is right in front of the worlds eyes is the Bible. The proof of the Bible will be found in the hundreds of fulfilled prophecies which the world and often the church ignores. The prophecies are still being fulfilled in the day we live. The Jews return to Israel, their recapture of Jerusalem, the sealing of the East Gate, America, Russia, the Anti-Christ to come. The destruction of nations in one hours time. It's all there and a lot more. Only God could of put a book with so much knowledge of the future together. The God of the Bible states that people would rather believe a lie rather than the truth and in the end will reject His words.

 

bullshit, the bible is interpreted to mean so many things, there so vague you can apply the prophesys to almost anything. im sure you read the left behind novels for your info to explain revalations.

 

I knew about these prophecies 40 years ago, and the left behind series most likely left out the majority of the prophecies because they would be politically incorrect to write. Read Ezk. chapters 37,38,and 39 and tell me you don't know what there talking about. A 12 year old boy could figure it out. And bye the way, I have never read the left behind series. It would be a waste of my time. Everything I know about the Bible comes from the Bible.