The General Election

I would still be getting my groceries.
They are cheaper over there. My cousin lives in london.

 

Be a very cold day in hell before I would condescend to even acknowledge the presence of a scumbag 'nasty party' member, let alone thank them !!!

 

Asmo

Thing is I have done, I know what things he says they will get ‘control’ of - but it is meaningless because he doesn’t actually say what he means by that.

I mean the UK already has ‘control’ of migration, laws and finances what extra control does he want?

I wish I didn’t have to repeat myself oh hell I wish I didn’t have to repeat myself….

The problem is that I come up against a brick wall – in any rational and honest debate the leavers would have to admit Brexit is a bad idea so they evade, misdirect and obfuscate, forcing anyone in discussion with them to keep repeating themselves.

Which is complicated as has been explained many times I can go into detail if you wish (and so repeat myself) but the bottom line is that the EU isn’t the problem and Brexit isn’t the solution to those problems.

Again I could go into detail but as you imply Brexit isn’t really the solution.

This again is complicated and the reason why trade deals often take years to complete and actually going to WTO will mean having to give up a lot more control than staying with the EU.

It depends on what you mean by trade more freely

It’s about swings and roundabouts in any deal there are gains and losses and another reason why trade deals often take years.

At the moment we have a complete tariff free trade deal with our biggest trading partner (the other EU27) and some 40 trade deals covering 70 other countries around the globe through the EU. This is very beneficial to the UK. Outside we are going to be in a lot tougher position.

One person (a leaver) was involved in the carpet industry so here is something I wrote for them

If we crash out of the EU lots on industries will face huge problems let us look at those that will face the carpet industries.

If we crash out to WTO rules the government has already decided that it will reduce the tariff for carpet coming into the country from around the world to ZERO.

So all the carpet that were coming in to the UK from non-EU countries that ae now paying 8% tariff will now pay nothing the carpets from say China, Asia and America will all become 8% cheaper.

This will be hard on UK manufacturers

And the thing is that this is unlikely to be reciprocated by other WTO members (they don’t have to and why would they).

So UK carpet manufacturers will still have to carry on paying the same tariffs as before when exporting to non-EU countries.

BUT also they will have to pay EU tariffs if they sell into the EU (which I think is 8%) so whereas before there was no tariff there will now be a tariff.

This means the UK carpet will have to be more expensive in the EU or the UK manufactures have to cut costs, possibly through job losses, lower pay, zero hour contracting or a move more automation.

It is going to be hard and if they do sell to countries inside the EU the temptation will be to move at least some manufacturing to somewhere inside the EU and of course the EU will be happy to take them in.

There might be some way for UK manufacturers to get cheaper materials which might offset some of the squeeze but that is unlikely to be that great.

So

8% cheaper imports of foreign carpets coming into the UK market

UK exports remaining at same price to non-EU countries

But now having to pay EU tariffs to export to EU.

Many have left and others are planning on it, many will be looking at the situation and weighing up what way the Johnson government takes, anyway they have now a year to get there affairs in order if they wish to go.

 

VG

As I’ve said (in the Score card thread) if the Johnson Tories are clever they will make sure that the next year is ‘better’ and they will be helped in that by the right wing media. And for fuck sake you do know don’t you that the next 12 months is the transition period?

But as explained to you many, many, many times already this has always been about the medium to long term, it going to be a generational thing.

 

VG

Oh hell man do you take anything in through that exceptionally thick skull LOL?

Let’s see shall we – look we have talked about this so can you remember?

Why is the VAT at 20%

Which country pushed the EU to fix VAT across the EU at 15%?

Oh man showing your ignorance again? Do you do any research?

Woolworths closed all its stores in the UK over TEN YEARS AGO

 

@Balbus just to be clear: I wasn't implying the UK gets more control over fishing in the North sea or immigration after a brexit I was mentioning a few of those points Brexit supporters often claim control over it will be better or 'regained'. And expanding in short on it how I see these things (critically as you hopefully can notice ).

I understand the feeling for the need to repeat yourself, but as you can see: literally repeating yourself several times after your convo partners respond a little differently is not useful. Go with the little thing they expanded on (even though it might be very little or even seem merely like a rephrase) and ask further on that. Literally repeating yourself, how useful it may seem, obviously has a counterproductive effect.

 

Dude, she is Australian. Woolworths here (where she lives) is our biggest supermarket chain. Different woolworths

 

He’s saying that where he is from there aren’t any because they were closed down.
He’s correct.
It also doesn’t matter what part of the world i’m from. I have family living over in london.

 

She can't help that, nor will we hold it against her

 

As is VG. But it really isn’t relevant.

 

"On 29 October 2019, 10 of the suspended MPs had the whip restored.[6] Four of these went on to contest the December 2019 election as Conservative candidates, retaining their seats, with the other six standing down at the election. Of the 11 who remained suspended, six declined to stand in the election, while five stood as independents or Liberal Democrats, all losing their seats."


So only 5 of the 21 Tory rebels went on to win a seat at this election.

Good to know

 

I’m closing this thread as the election is over – but I would point out that nobody celebrating this win seems to be able to articulate in any rational way what they think they have won