The Free Speech Crisis

Lol. It's like you dissected my post and just made up your own story in the process as I never once said I only get my information from the internet. I was clearly not talking about myself. One reason why I don't particularly heed interest in anything you say you're just kinda off out there making up your own shit, then trying to turn it around a little here and there if you get caught out on something. Oh nothing's ever your fault you've said nothing wrong. It's nothing new.

Secondly, i would have liked someone's post and admitted to not reading the rest of the thread because it was filled with bullshit in which you were the main contibuter and I do remember telling you, because I knew it'd piss you off, that I wasn't reading anything that you posted to me, because it was all Blah blah blah kinda like your post here I mean I only skim the first parts, that's enough of what I need to read to smell more bullshit sorry, what's the point in me reading something that's a facade based on your own fantasies over what I said? Because you didn't even read my post bro. Tsk Tsk. You're sitting there having a dig at me over not reading a post and you didn't even read mine. "people", Look for the keyword.

Get over it. For all the things you're trying to pin on me you're really no better. You've demonstrated here that you don't read either... Like that's some big thing to carry on for 6 weeks anyway. I'll read and not read what suits me thank you very much.

And as for my point about science publishing a theoretical assessment without knowing if it's true or not... That is the point. We are expected to believe whatever science says about our cosmology and the universe and they don't really even know themselves. That's the point. Easy peas. People might think they're all clever and intelligent because they know some science, but if those theories are wrong. In which many of them have to be cause only one of them is right, then that means you've spent your life believing in bullshit and preaching that bullshit.

Fools gold.

 

Heh, I hope I used the term fools gold correctly because I don't believe I've ever said it on my life but it seems about right. Fools gold. Means a fool thinks they've found gold when they really haven't? Lol. Sounds like a good 90% of theoretical science to me because it has to be. They can't all be right.

That's fucken gold, Irm! Someone put that on a plaque.

 

And bingo

I mean isn’t that the whole problem, increasingly these days people only read things that suit them (things that they like) and ignore or attack anything that doesn’t suit them (they dislike), irrespective of if the things that suit them are invalid and the things they don’t like are actually valid.

This is a the centre of the Free Speech problem – with people demanding to say things that they like (that suit them) even if those things are incorrect, deeply flawed and don’t stand up to scrutiny while refusing to accept the views of those they don’t like even if they are correct and do stand up to scrutiny.

It is not about being right or wanting to be right, it is about feeling right, the ideas feel right to someone because they suit them, they like them on an emotional level rather than on a rational one.

 

Well no one should have to accept anybodies views an an acceptance, especially if you don't agree with them.

Me for instance, I already know pretty much everything I believe in is probably pretty far out there and I don't expect anybody to believe it either. So of course I accept others have different opinions, I don't argue that others have different views and opinions, I expect them to, they are their own people and of course they have their own thoughts. My problem is being told that someone is wrong about a topic that doesn't have a conclusion, like a lot of theoretical science.. So when someone says, nah I ain't believe that, and someone else comes in with theoretical science it's like woah hang on a minute, you don't know that shit is real either, why you telling them they're wrong for?

Not that that has anything to do with free speech though. I don't think free speech has anything to do with people wanting or needing to listen to someone else's view. They're free to speak it, doesn't mean anybody has to listen though?

So I don't get why it's such a big deal, that in a thread that was completely derailed, why it's frowned upon that I wasn't reading the whole thing. I think you'd find it hard pressed to find a high percentage of people that read a thread in its entirety to post their own response. A lot of people just go to the last Page, last post. They're not doing anything wrong.

 

Irm

You do realise that is the basis of scientific enquiry? Theories are put up and there might be competing theories, then were and when it’s possible to test those theories or more information becomes available some theories become more trusted than others and can turn into something more than just theory.

Who are the we?

And theorist are often happy if their theories are disproved because even a negative results moves the enquiry on, science is not scripture and should never be so.

 

Oh yes I'm well aware of all that, but the fact theories are made isn't really my concern it's the distribution of the theory upon society (we) and our expectation to simply agree or believe what we are being told.

An expectation to me doesn't hold any dignity to the word "free".

 

Maybe people just find it interesting. I think everyone is aware that there are certain fields in science (which compromises such a tiny fraction of overall scientific inquiry anyways) that cant be proven without a shadow of a doubt because we are tiny ants in the universe and dont have the means to test everything that is studied beyond the earth, no one is taking it as scripture, that's what science is all about anyways, proving itself wrong with every new bit of knowledge we learn. But it's pretty amazing that we can study it at all, that we can even contemplate what exists beyond what we can tangibly see and feel.

It's a mystery to me how someone who puts so much value on imagination cant grasp why other people find the more theoretical fields of science so interesting.

 

I can easily grasp why others find those fields interesting. That's never been in question. I even find them interesting, I just don't necessarily agree with them nor do I believe in a lot of them. So to flip that over, why is it so detrimental for you guys to grasp that there's people out there that don't agree or believe in a theory that may or may not be accurate?

 

I also find the part interesting where you say how it's amazing people can contemplate what exists beyond what we can see and feel when religion is often thrown to the ground for living in that same concept and ideology.

See what I mean? It often doesn't go both ways and it's bothersome and science is right up there to point fingers at, as I think it's all quite hypocritical tbh.

 

I'm not being hypocritical as I dont criticize religion so I dont know where you're getting that from.

I'm just going to edit the rest of this post out because it isnt worth getting into, my post below was the only point I wanted to make

 

I just think it's a big assumption to think people only believe in the more theoretical fields of science because they're told to. That's all I'm trying to say.


(And again belief isnt even the right word, science can always be turned on its head with new information and anyone with a serious or even passing interest in science knows this)

 

Like look at it this way.

Not you Mel, but others are always putting down my alien stuff right, but I'm never telling them it's real. I don't even know if it's real.. But I suspect it holds just as much evidence as a lot of scientific theories. My evidence is written in stone, on walls, temples, carved into mountains... A lot of scientific theories revolve around strands of atoms and whole bunch of sub theories that cannot be seen, heard, felt or even measured.

But I don't sit here and drag on pages and pages of arguments because they don't believe the Anunnaki created humans. But the moment I don't believe in an unproven, untested, impossible won't even happen theory.. Ohh well....

So I find that hypocritical. What's free in that? And by free I term equal. I don't see or feel the equality there, at all really. And that's cool, it doesn't bother me that they mightn't believe my own theories, I don't even know if I do sometimes. but what triggers me isn't what anyone believes, it's just that nobody ever treats anyone equal though they all preach it. One side always has to be right and for whatever reason it gets nasty and it gets nasty over a little thing like someone doesn't think that's a photo of a black hole hehe.

Do you know what I mean? When one side has to ardently justify their view so oppressively, well then free speech ceases to exist. There's no freedom.under constant duress or scrutiny.


Sorry you posted while I was typing that lol.

No I wasn't calling you specifically hypocritical I'm saying the whole science/religion thing is hypocritical to me because they're both based around believing in the unseen/unproved.

I also need to clear up again that by science I only really mean cosmology. I better look that word up. Yep. Cosmology.

I don't think I do look down on others for their beliefs at all, I may critisize or poke fun at the belief in itself but not the person for believing it. Kind of like a patriots fan. I'll hate the hell out of the patriots, the brand and the name, but I don't actually hate a person for going for them. And that's how I think I am with the whole science thing. I've never criticised anybody personally over it, I've only ever questioned the topic. Doesn't go both ways.

 

Freedom of speech is where one person can say, hey the big bang happened! And another person can say, hey no it didn't, it was the big rip! And neither are effected by one another's opinion.

But when one person says, hey no it didn't, it was the big rip! And that person's characteristic attributes are brought into the conversation to put down the person and not the topic... That's when there is no longer free speech.

That's what I always feel like I'm fighting for.

 

And if any of that gets misconstrued in a way where people just can't agree with me, or find reasoning there then that's cool. We just don't gel on that topic or level or whatever. Doesn't mean I think bad of you or I hate you for believing in a theory I don't. We can still be friends... I been living with one like that for 16 years.

That's the definition of freedom, to me at least.

 

Irm

Well this is the politic forum - and what you seem to be saying is that because you believe in crap ideas like the Anunnaki creating the human race that you think crap political ideas are ok as well?

Look I don’t care what wacky pseudoscienticfic ideas you might hold or if you want to believe in fairies or goblins but politics can have an impact on the real world, if you get it right and follow good ideas it can mean people having long and fulfilled lives but get it wrong and follow bad ideas it can lead to short brutish lives for many or even the gas chambers and ovens of an Auschwitz.

 

Spot on !

 

No its not.

A law is a mathematical description of something observable. A theory is an explanation as to why it happens, they are two seperate things

With the scientic method, everything is always open for review

 

People have different values in life which means different political parties and opinions are going to differ. People who have no plans on having children will think in different political terms than those that have plans. This means the two groups could be voting for opposing political parties. What is "crap" to one certainly won't be "crap" to the other.

No different to science v religious battle, as political party vs political party occur from two or several sides sometimes geared towards those two or several people sometimes.

While I can easily dislike a political idea or agenda, I find it hard to fault a person for the way they think. I honestly don't believe that's fair, which is why you see me always sticking up for certain groups even when I don't necessarily agree at all.

Through sides that preach so much positivity and equality, I just don't see it. But I'll stick up for their right to be as human as they can be and their entitled to it, whether I personally agree or not.

 

The Article the OP linked in the first post has this to say:

So

1. We dont have total free speech - Not supposed to say things like all French people have bad breath
2. Someone posts a study from the University of Montana that say 9/10 French people have breath that smells like roses, we are well withing our rights to object to that

 

There are so many things I think about all this that I know I better just be quiet.

HOWEVER - one thing I WILL say because I KNOW this - and I've KNOWN people that are actually active members of the KKK (and I no longer have anything to do with them) - anybody can call the KKK clowns in white sheets...but they are no joke.

They, the KKK, are alive and well, and the upper echelon of what has become a damn sorry government in the USA supports them and any other neo-nazi, racist groups. Regardless of free speech and whatnot, this is a fact - and I wish it was something people would heed. But then if you don't live here in the US, its just all words and doesn't matter that much...its just something else to toss words at, or even throw up a diagram or 2. That'll show 'em.

Even my son, who is the complete opposite of someone who believes in conspiracies laughed when I told him that people on this forum don't believe the KKK exists and that they are "harmless"...

The KKK is not harmless, and neither are those that support them.