The founding fathers were slave owners

Talking of Health Care specifically, there are many good models internationally to choose from that have already proved to be workable.

Isn't it the conservatives who want the pledge to remain in public schools, and doesn't it contain the phrase "one nation under god," while, at the same time, they want to break it into 50 pieces? Either we have one big nation or 50 little ones. Why should I, living in Georgia, have fewer rights and privileges than someone living in Massachusetts?

How can a state like Arizona bitch about State's Rights and at the same time demand that the federal government do something about illegal immigration? With "State's Rights," isn't that their problem? And, shouldn't Texas deal with their own Mexican drug lord problems? You never hear about "State's Rights" when federal money is being given to the states.

Don't know this one, but I would guess and say the states who get the most are the ones yelling about "State's Rights."

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You are correct, you move onto the lightening round sir.

 

I wasn't asking about the first, but since you mention it medicare and medicaid are somewhat in the red aren't they?
So Mass has socialized medicine for just the poor?

I'd be interested in knowing which State(s) are footing more than their fair share of the bills.

 

Medicare can't really be in the red as it's budget isn't discretionary, it's payments must be met. And yes, it basically is just for the poor, the law is you're required to carry insurance, if you're income is low enough you can qualify for grants to cover a good deal of a cheap plan.

Mass alone though is paying for the bill. As it is Mass pays more to the federal government than they get back. In 2005 according to the tax foundation they got back 82 cents for every dollar they put in. My state is even worse, we got 70 cents for every dollar.

The fact is the south and mid-west, people complaining most about "socialism" and states rights are the people gaining the most for socialism and sucking the most money out of my state.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/92.html

 

Here is a cute little fact:

Many federal regulations and guidelines are not mandatory if states don't take the money. Any state that wants to be more independent can do so by refusing federal $s and paying their own way. For example, most educational guidelines only apply if federal education money is taken.

The father says to the son, "if you're going to live in my house, eat my food and drive my car, you're going to live by my rules."

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Heck, even the drinking law isn't required to be at 21, it just is if a state wants federal highway money.

 

On a current events note, the Gulf Coast states are the most conservative state's righters and ardent supporters of off-shore drilling, yet they're yelling for the federal government to clean up their mess. Maybe it's time for them to learn what State's Rights really means and let them clean up their own shores.

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Plain and simple, the founding fathers were a bunch of powerful elite fucks who saw the new world as a wealth of resources to be exploited. But they needed labor, so they used a propaganda campaign promising a "new life" among other things to recruit desperate Europeans into what would amount to indentured servitude, slavery. Of course the use of African and other slaves goes without saying...

Those elite fucks hated and feared the common people, therefore they were completely opposed to the form of government called "democracy". They stated on many occasions in no ambiguous terms their disdain for democracy. Note the word does not appear in the constitution, the bill of rights, or any of the amendments.

Any democratic freedoms or states rights we have now are the result of pressure from below, riots, revolutions and so forth.
But they are all mostly pathetic consolations that give people the illusion that they have some kind of autonomy over the federal government...Puuleez get real peeps, the elite will not allow a true democracy in this country...

 

That's the up side, true democracy is a bad idea.

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Sorry, I missed Balbus's post #33... Well put.

 

Yeah, In a true democracy the majority vote rules, if everyone votes for pizza and I don't like pizza, then democracy suck's for me...

If you don't agree with most people, democracy is a nightmare.
's why the educational system is the key to any sane democracy...
...uum reference the Texas school board textbook issue...
subvert or outright deny real education and it becomes easier to control, manipulate popular opinion.

 

In effect the debt which Medicare would create is assigned to something else.

And Mass has no state debt? Or your state also?

Then you're telling me that the people you are sending money to are the ones wanting it to stop, and you instead wish to force it upon them?

 

I think that's what the Texas governor is doing, and I have to applaud the New Jersey governor, Christie also.

Of course rules, when seen to be to tightly constraining and oppressive, can often lead to rebellion.

 

And they are good models?

It does now contain those words, including "the republic" for which it stands, although it is no longer a compulsory pledge. And we do indeed have 50 sovereign states which comprise the nation. Each state should have the same rights, which are not necessarily the same as privileges. If another state provides greater privileges, there are no laws which prohibit individuals from moving to them if they desire. Federally mandated privileges diminish freedom and in many if not most cases those privileges given can only be given at a cost to others who must foot the bill of providing them. Kind of like socialism?
stage 1 - "From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution"
stage 2 - "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

Arizona has for some time been trying to get the Federal government to do their job, and are now beginning to retake responsibility as the Federal government has been reluctant to perform. Votes sometimes take precedence over laws.
Money is another issue. The only money the Federal government has is money which has been taken from the producers of it in their respective states. It is only a form of redistribution, and one in which X amount of dollars comes in while X+Y dollars are paid out, with the Y dollars being borrowed and added to the national debt.

As long as the national debt is a responsibility of all taxpayers, there is no incentive for a state to lessen their demands for "Federal" dollars. One state spends it and every state is responsible for the repayment.
As long as the GDP remains greater than the debt interest I guess everyone will assume there is no problem? I think the national debt is a much greater problem than global warming, and a computer model of it is much easier to produce which would show conclusive results, unlike the planets temperature variations.

 

Every other first world nation provides universal health care to its citizens through various different systems while spending substantially less on health care and having their systems ranked higher. I would say many are indeed better.

There's statistical evidence that shows the greater the income inequality in a nation the high its incarceration rate and overall crime rate. Want to take a guess which western nation has the highest income inequality of western nations combined with the largest prison population of every single country in the world, both by absolute numbers and per capita people? Yea, that's right, our prison incarceration rate is higher than China and Russia.

 

It's free where I live, or you can pay if you wish to have full control over who your doctor is and what treatment you can receive.
Evidence there's more to steal?

 

How is providing health care stealing?

 

nothing is free... people pay for healthcare in one way shape or form... its called tax dollars

 

We can pool our money (taxes) and provide our own health care, or pay billions to the insurance companies who will do everything they can not to pay the bills.

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The act of taking someones property without their consent is stealing.
Health care is a service which can be provided at a cost determined by the provider.
The free market produces and makes available many products and services which it is up to the consumer to make the choice based upon need and/or affordability. It is the individual consumer who must make the choice of the need being greater than the debt which might occur. Health care is nothing more than a service and the products it uses.
Self reliance is also a choice which the wise make, and the unwise make excuses.
Perhaps schools should make more of an effort to teach students to make wise choices, and not wise cracks?