The End of Modern Civilization

Discussion in 'The Future' started by Jesse49, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. sosmartamadeus

    sosmartamadeus Members

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    Conformity and uniformity of thought and ideas, orderly as it may seem.
     
  2. myndtyme

    myndtyme Banned

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  3. myndtyme

    myndtyme Banned

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    Ok this is Musk's bleak opinion...
     
  4. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    too late is a yes and no.

    too late to avoid all the pain.
    not to late to avert the total extinction of the human species.

    doesn't look much like enough people feel a world they can not only live, but actually enjoy living in,
    is anything they value as much or more as continuing to try and impress each other with what they can buy that was made by someone else.
    but as they say, the fat lady hasn't sung until she does.

    i like to think there will remain a small sapient population that looks more like furrys then present day humans.
    those being the ones who will live to survive childhood in the world we seem destined to leave for them.

    all possibilities continue to exist, i just wouldn't count on that future's "normal" to resemble ours or that of a few years ago.

    (not that i believe there has ever been such a thing as a "normal".
    but there was a time when the trains carried the mail, and ballots were marked with a number 2 pencil,
    and building codes were only for cities, and there were even public lands you could homestead for close enough to free,
    there were some things you could mostly count on)

    we are locked on to a course that is headed streight toward envirocide, but its not an unbreakable lock, just one that if a majority ignores, they do so at everyone's peril.
    i shouldn't say "locked on", more like it the momentum of where we've been. but there sure is a lot of it.

    car makers are reluctantly being dragged toward electric, but no one even mentions the option of reliable rails, when flights are canceled. not on the news in the u.s.
    and that's insanely tragic. or even electric intercity buses, though no one ever entirely loved buses, and a very few struggle on. but again that's maybe just the u.s.

    there are some things that are called civilization, the loss of which, might not be entirely a bad thing, rather it is the existence of a sapient species on are planet which is the larger concern.
     
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  5. SexyPsychedelic

    SexyPsychedelic Members

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    God damn things going hard in the world at the moment - and it's just gonna keep on going harder and harder! Exponentially so. Level of Novelty preceeding at an exponential pace - throwing events at us such as what's currently happening in Ukraine. The only way out for a mass awakening of souls, a looking inwards at one's own self rather than endlessly outwards. No matter what tho - it will be alright and this is not the end for you. All is love.
    Or at least that's what I constantly tell myself =D Spread the love, Unity over division, practice non-Violence, and perhaps try out magical mushrooms if you aren't too mentally unstable. They are what gave us consciousness, the ingestion of psilocybin mushrooms by our primate ancestors! What a life...Anyways, much love!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
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  6. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    anyone who lives more then 50 years, will see a world in which many of what were familiar assumptions when they were children proven to be at least inaccurate and having been replaced by others. (many of which will also eventually prove to be equally inaccurate).

    this has been going on for rather longer then even we have been printing books or even scratching on rocks.

    i use the term familiar assumptions, which is also the archiological meaning of culture, in place of the term 'modern civilization', because it is more accurate and less illusary.

    not meaning to imply there won't or haven't been 'bumps in the road', of which there have been many, bigger then we can comfortably get our minds around,
    both long enough ago for their impact to have been mostly forgotten, and yet to come, possibly soon.

    perhaps some day, those of us who might be still here, by the random chance of surviving that is, will look and feel as different as the world that surrounds us, when that day comes.

    i don't think too many of us expected what is going on in Ukraine right now either. nor five years ago this super flue that is still not yet a thing of the past.

    how much will either have permanently changed the world we think we live in and in what ways remains as yet unclear.
    we have been made aware of the vulnerabilities of dependence on supply chains, but how much have we actually done about that?

    i still think as big or bigger a change then nuclear winter, should that happen, will be how raising ocians affect food production and distribution,
    how climate change affects diseases and their vectors. increase in forest/bush fires, is one i hadn't really thought about or expected, that we have as well.

    whatever we do to ourselves/each other, as one species, is still smaller then major shifts in the complex of natural interconnections we call environment and ecology.
     
  7. oldguynurse

    oldguynurse Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Damn, themnax, that was a well-written essay. Nicely done. Covered lots of things, without 'chasing rabbits' on each of them. Look to see more from you.

    Have you been following Captain Scarlets' thread "The Ukrainian Crisis"? If not, go see it. He keeps it well-moderated and on-topic.
     
  8. Piobaire

    Piobaire Village Idiot

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  9. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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  10. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Stupid,stupid, stupid fuckin' cult members. Could be the end of THOUGHTFUL, DISCERNING civilization!:mad:
     
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  11. wyldwynd

    wyldwynd ~*~ Super Moderator

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    The earth is billions and billions upon billions years old with solid affirmations of life abundant of everlasting in every ancient aspect

    do not spread or worry with fear of doom and gloom.(minority)

    ...instead plant a tree...do something productive ..be kind ...exercise humanity and you will see that you are the majority as life is harmony
     
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  12. wyldwynd

    wyldwynd ~*~ Super Moderator

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    Just spreading some cheer saving the rain forests
     
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  13. Captain Scarlet

    Captain Scarlet Lifetime Supporter

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    I Remember in the UK when we "Plant a tree in 73 " I still see the Apple tree I planted at my old house where we lived .

    Maybe we need a repeat of something like that .
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. wyldwynd

    wyldwynd ~*~ Super Moderator

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    Yes that defies any war by rewarding life with promise of growth

    wow everyone should start campaigns in their own regions, neighborhoods, countries, to do this

    As a silent protest with a loud request to spread love life and growth
     
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  15. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    depending on how you use the word civilization, there are a lot of things that won't be entirely missed.
     
  16. Idlewild

    Idlewild Members

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    We're living in strange times. Aside from Russia's invasion of Ukraine, we have a homeless problem not seen since the Great Depression. I know it's never been this bad in my lifetime of 64 years. The price of housing is unreal and people working full time still can't afford a place to live.

    The average price of a house here in Denver is over $600,000! That's incredible! I could understand paying that much for a house in New York City or Paris, which are cultural centers of the world, but Denver? There's nothing here but tech companies, urban sprawl, shopping malls, and heavy traffic. Just 30 or so years ago, you could buy a little ranch house for under $100k. That same house is worth over 1/2 a million dollars today! Incredible!

    The American dream was to own a house and a car or two, and people could achieve that if they worked hard or went to college. Today, working hard isn't enough. One needs a four year degree to make it in today's economic climate and to achieve the American dream. But not everyone is cut out for college or an office job, and people without at least a Bachelor's degree are getting left behind. Those are also the people most likely to become violent as we saw with the January 6th insurrection and the white supremacist rallies.

    Another big problem is the polarization between the right and the left. The right no longer lives in a world where facts are verifiable and consistent with reality. They believe whatever fits their world view — proof be damned! Or more likely, they know that what they believe is total bullshit, just like religious people know that what they believe is total bullshit, but they feign belief because it makes them feel better about themselves and provides a sense of community where everyone espouses the same bullshit.

    And then we have the problem of climate change where we have massive fires that eat up 100s of acres and destroy entire communities. Severe storms are causing flooding and tornado destruction not seen since we've been keeping track of them.

    And to top it all off, now we have skyrocketing inflation where a typical trip to the grocery store cost over $200! Steak is over $10 a pound! A brisket costs $100!

    It's actually a bit surprising that people are keeping it together as well as they are. Sure, we have an occasional mass shooting and suicide rates are high, but for the most part, people are carrying on like nothing's wrong. People need to go to the window and shout out: I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it any more!

    Or not. :)
     
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  17. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    except this isn't the sort of thing that being mad is going to help. our priorities are what has created this situation.
    the whole thing of wanting to be more then the next guy to impress him or her.
    that's not where happiness comes from.
    homeless? we don't let people build their own shelter and live in it, because we don't like how that would look, the collective we statistically.
    american dream?
    i'll dream my own dreams, thank you, dreams that don't need or include to impress anyone by anything other then what i can create with my own hands and my own imagination.
    every problem mentioned is created by the priorities of "american" culture. and of course not just american, or even just "western".

    climate? we can have mechanical transportation without burning fossils. but right now that's only available to rich people who want to look good.
    why is that? cultural priorities again, of everyone wanting to impress everyone else, instead of enjoying their own odd uniqueness,
    instead of making and doing what pleases them.
    climate is also because there are already more of us then can avoid causing it, even if we did everything else right, which of course again, american dream culture is not in the dierection of doing that. everyone has to bring more kids into this world. no we don't. sex is fun and nothing wrong with that, except, again, work arounds, not lowering birth rate drastically, failing to do so, that is the doom, not merely of 'civilization', but of the species itself.

    you know, the 'counter culture' 'hippie' culture, was about recognizing that. its not the little green pieces of paper that are unhappy.
    really a lot of it, people expect their anger to magically solve things. that's not the way it works. that's why we have this creaping fascism,
    because people are conned into expecting some magical ideology to solve things, or finding those least able to prove otherwise to blame things on.

    there's a place for anger, if you were in ukraine being shot at by the russian invasion, that would be the place for anger, to throw things back.
    so yes, there is a place for it. but solving these kind of economic things, that takes for people to stop hating logic and consideration.

    to let go of the idea that belief is going to save us from the illogic of refusing to take everything into consideration in relation to our priorities.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
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  18. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    I actually was wondering about the rising numbers of the homeless in U.S. In January 2020 itself, there were 580,466 people who were homeless, and I was wondering what actually was the issue.

    I used to get videos in my mobile internet on homeless people in the U.S. living in tents, vans and cars and was wondering why the richest nation on earth could not have affordable housing for its citizens.

    Your post helped to bring some clarity on the subject.

    Perhaps American citizens need to make their government accountable and ensure more spending on affordable healthcare, housing, education and reduce the cost of basic services. This in itself can reduce much of the psychological stress and mental health issues of its citizens that you have cited.
     
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  19. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    As for the OP's theme, I would say that the state of consciousness , both individual and collective, would go a long way in determining a civilization's longevity or terminal decline.

    But at present, modern civilization, especially the western has old-school limiting paradigms of causal Determinism which negates free will and conscious intent, and does not give much necessary attention to the problem of consciousness.

    I would say this perspective gap or limited perspective could possibly result in grave errors of poor judgement in the long run.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
  20. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Republicans don't want the government to be more accountable to the mass of citizens. They want to shrink government down to virtually nothing and allow business : IE corporations, to dictate how it's citizens --the middle and poor classes are treated. Which party advocates for single payer health care and to end the Insurance middlemen? Which party advocates for adequate spending on our failing infrastructure? Now-which party passes laws to restrict voting rights? Which party would and did settle for a lying, narcissistic crook as president? Which party has really stupid representatives such as MTG--Boebert--Hawley, et al--etc? Which party hates unionism and the raising of minimum wages? It's no secret which party wants government to serve ALL citizens and not the favored few.

    As has been said, authoritarianism is the default position throughout human history. We're seeing that happening here in the US now and our democracy , if replaced with what republican / conservative types seem to want or at least will tolerate---modern civilization as we know it will be as bad as it is in Russia, China, North Korea, Iran and may never be the same again.

    We do need to improve on our capitalist system so that it is not so unbalanced. Or eliminate it altogether and figure out an equatable social / ist system the world over. (post script--NEVER HAPPEN.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2022
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