The Dutch Create the Real Big Brother

See what I mean, all three, criticising me, not one discussing any of the issues i raised. Why not? Why bother to post if just to criticise the other poster, and not address the content of their posts? Well THAT kind of flaming will definitely get you banned. So either put up with a proper response or don't bother to post in this forum at all.

I'm far more sick of your ganging up on people speaking their minds, than you are about my doing just that.

Got it?

The only thing ringing hollow around here are your attempts to derail the thread with personal attacks.

 

Yeah, but this is a FREE-SPEECH site, yet you have NEVER started a thread or criticized your government here. Why save your criticisms for only the Dutch? Why are you Dutch so reluctant to hear criticisms from non-Dutch? Why do you attack those who criticise the Dutch, when you feel free to do so with your fellow countrymen?

Why should I go to another more limited (Dutch) forum to discuss these things when I've created these forums for just this purpose?

You Dutch want to present such a squeeky clean image to foreigners, meanwhile your own society gets more fucked up daily, and you resent those who point it out to you.

And regardless of the number protests you go to, it sure seems to me that you are flogging a dead horse, cause we're not seeing much response from your government.

At least you withdrew your troops from Iraq, but they should never have gone there in the first place. And of course you Dutch aren't very good at protecting foreigners anyway, as proven in Bosnia. That is about the only concession your government has made towards protests that I've seen so far.

And it should be obvious once again that when I criticise the Dutch it is not ALL the Dutch that I'm talking about, but usually the majority, especially those supporting the current government. But no, you guys all take it personally cause I write the word YOU. If you're not smart enough to figure out whether or not my comments apply to you, then they probably do. If the shoe fits...

BTW Consolidated, how can I "have no clue" when I myself attended numerous protests in Amsterdam when I lived there? I got to see just how ineffective they were in altering Dutch policy.

You guys talk a big storm, but you're obviously NOT doing enough. Instead of attacking those who've been there, done that with protests in other countries, you might LISTEN and respect what they have to say about your country. You might even LEARN something (god forbid) about how others see your country.

I've found the Dutch society to be incredibly insular and exclusive. You guys think you know everything about everything, and everyone else's opinion has no value at all.

But I tell you this: you haven't learned your history well enough. The younger generations have had it too easy and expect their government to take care of them, not realizing how involved in politics they must be for that promise to be kept.

Meanwhile Balkenende undoes the social system to favor big business interests while your people spend their free time watching football games and going to ecstasy infused raves.

 

If the shoe fits...

If it don't it don't.

I'm sick of the Dutch railing against those who criticise their government and those who support it or ignore it. We who've lived in Holland have that right. In fact it is one of the few rights left that we foreign expats have there. Yet some of you would deny us that right, as shown by the number of personal attacks leveled here against those who speak their mind.

Many of the Dutch who come here would rather give directions to a coffeeshop than discuss the direction their country is heading. Very sad, but typical of Dutch apathy. I can accept their disregard for what is going on in their own country (lord knows my country is far more apathetic), but to attack those who speak out without even addressing the issues, and derailing threads with concerted attacks will not be tolerated here.

 

Another thing, I get accused of "running away" from countries whose policies I don't like. Well in the case of Holland, I was pretty much forced out due to changes in Dutch law that made it more difficult if not impossible for people like me to live there.

But I suppose discussing that kind of thing would just lead to more personal attacks against me. That is the atmosphere that has developed on this forum. Perhaps some more bans are in order...

 

That would have to be another whole thread, when I feel in the mood. Right now I couldn't care less about the Netherlands & Dutch, even though it is my concern about their future that prompts all my posts on these subjects.

In fact it also my concern that these new Dutch laws set a fascist precedent for other countries to follow. If the Dutch succeed in implementing these laws, then it's quite likely to be a model for fascists everywhere. Rather than accepting the very successful Dutch soft-drug policy model or prostitution regulation, fascists are all too keen to copy that which gives them more control over their people.

Most Dutch haven't a clue what kind of pandora's box they've opened with these new laws. They think it only affects them, when in reality it will soon affect those in other countries, just as their new residency laws affect expats. All these laws are fascist in their intent and effect.

I'd like to see some Dutch person here do some fucking research and compare these new laws to those promulgated in Holland during the Nazi occupation. I'm sure there are some close comparisons to be drawn. But that would require someone to do some homework when they could be watching football or going to a rave.

 

In fact I'm now wondering how much the use of club drugs have affected the thinking processes of the Dutch. I've noticed those who regularly go to clubs have far less interest in politics.

And since this makes up a big proportion of young Dutch of voting age, perhaps that is why the government allows the widespread use of these drugs - to keep the young people quiet and docile. Marijuana works that trick awfully well too.

Ah yes, welcome to the Brave New World of the Dutch. (I'm not sure it should be called "brave" tho, after Bosnia...)

 

Another thing the Dutch seem to not be too aware of is that these new laws are modeled after laws being considered in the US & the UK, by their fascist leaders.

Again your insularity works against you because you think of your political process as being something independent whereas the truth is that your government has been manipulated to an extreme extent by US policy makers.

The whole Iraq war debacle illustrates this if you've done any research at all on how the US influenced your going to war.

The whole war on terror has enabled the US to dictate terms to other European governments (some of whom at first cooperated, then finally resented the interference). These terms included much more intrusion into people's personal lives and much more organization of personal information accessible by far too many parties. The new Dutch laws even take this further, having leapfrogged over what other "freedom-loving" countries have managed to pass off on their populace.

To create such laws out of fear is far more damaging than what they are used to fight against. The terrorists win because they are more able to change society than it's own citizens can.

The Dutch only see this as: "Oh I have to get an ID now", or "Damn, I have to pay a 50 Euro fine". And that's as far as their concern goes. Pathetic.

When the authorities can stop you at will and search you for no good reason, your society is already doomed.

 

The Dutch are clearly victims of the "US" and "THEM" mentality that the Bush administration has promulgated.

Of course the Dutch were already well on their way with their racist attitudes towards immigrants, never fully accepting them as "Dutch". I encountered that "us" and "them" attitude towards minorities in almost every Dutch I met, including many who consider themselves "liberal".

It is this polarization into black and white that has allowed the fascists to gain power. Witness how Pim Fortuyn made a whole platform based on this.

 

1. Leftists are WINNING elections around the world - what fascist channel do you get your news from?

2. I found more bigotry and racism in Holland when I lived there (for 8 years) than I did in Germany when I lived there...

3. Fascists cannot assume complete power overnight. First they must pass laws to give a legitimacy to their fascist actions. Hitler knew this very well and passed laws each more fascist than the last, eventually assuming full personal power over Germany. Your government is following his footsteps exactly, just as Bush & Blair are trying to do. However you complacent Dutch are making it all too easy for Balkenende to accomplish this.