The Double Standard for men and women.

Look, your talking points are not going to go over with me.

I have been shamed for sleeping around and I'm a boy (Guess what? I survived!). Call it sex negativity if you want to use lefty jargon; or better yet call it nothing at all.

Whatever you do, DO NOT throw around some rote feminist crap and expect me to sit here and nod.

So, what's your grandiose solution other than avoiding assholes? Roll back the first amendment or keep nagging everybody to death?

Pack 'em up into wagons en route to the gas chamber, that's what I say!

 

I have no problem with that

 

Let's continue this friendly debate then yes?

Keep in mind I am speaking generally, while silently acknowledging differences in law state by state.

I will also concede that in politics, we are a patriarchal society currently, but perhaps we are in the middle of seeing a shift.


But speaking in general society I disagree, I've seen a lot of teen boys and men who are immature or are suffering some kind of identity crisis, and for lack of a better term seem lost. Whereas I see a significant amount of females having a better sense of maturity about themselves when it comes to education, being independent, being well-read in both fiction and non-fiction.

Women have made great gains in CERTAIN private sector industries, and I am not talking about perfume lines and fashion, no I'm talking sales, marketing, high-tech, biologists, scientists, and PhD type jobs.

There are sub-cultures that are still really old school in their beliefs about what women can do but to be honest I don't think they justify saying we live in a patriarchal society generally speaking.

----

Perhaps you would like to narrow your meaning as to how we are patriarchal still generally speaking if you still disagree with my statement.

 

That paragraph makes it sound like what your mother did was just as bad or worse in a way.

In your case there were 4 people closest to it; you, him, his wife and your mother. Most of that shaming came from two females, his wife and your mother. His wife more interested in the pay cheques still coming in than what happened to you. Your mother it was less of a thing cos you'd already thrown in your V card, treated your virginity like something to be traded...to the highest bidder, a future doctor or something ( and dont say, no she wasnt like that, they all do it)..and after that still more interested in her rep, your rep than what actually happened to you.

Supposed slut shaming ( gawd thats a nasty term just in itself)...most of it comes from the other chics

Now, the hidden reason why:

.... is because you broke the girl code.
You say you were a teenager, so I assume around 17, he in his 30s (which probably means older) married with kids. At the time, pretty much every girl thats older, especially in their 20s trying to get some guy to marry them, they aint going to hear or care about the rape part, they are going to be more concerned about their husbands hearing about a teenage girl sneaking a guy twice her age into her bedroom.

You broke the golden rule, thats supposed to be all hush hush, 23 newly married, finally landed that hubby, its not like they are going to turn around to that hubby and say "Well, you never have to try very hard, cos once you get to 35 and are a certain way you are going to get a bunch of teenage girls trying to sneak you into their bedroom, sneak into yours etc etc.

Its not anything about shaming you, or that they really care, its about whatever it takes to convince thier hubbys there is something wrong with you. That is, put their agendas before you. Listen with empathy to your face, say stuff like "you poor thing" yada yada, ......but then in the car on the ride home with the hubby, pull the bitch face, make out like you and your mother planned it all along to get to his money, emphasize to the hubby thats whats going to happen to him if a teenage girl ever sneaks him into her bedroom, a big juicy civil suit or a decade in jail.

The morality of it aside, most guys arent going to ever bother raping anyone, cos well why bother, especially compared to just going to a brothel, why have that on your record, screwing up your career, the rest of your life, for what. Its only certain types, a small percentage that are ever going to do it, usually ones that are messed up, have a god complex or were themselves victims at one stage, the rest of the guys, the vast majority just gety sick of hearing about this stuff.

Which leads me to the real trouble with playing the victim card, you just end up alienating all the good guys, more likley to attract the ones that get off on humiliating you, or get off on watching you get upset or go troppo...then over time everyone around you sees you just with those types of guys then thinks you yourself get off on it, and it just compounds.

Apart from the act itself, everything else is about all the other chics, guys dont think that far ahead, with the gals its always having to keep a dozen steps ahead. Why did it make such a difference to your mother at the time you werent a virgin? Do you think any guy you've ever met or will meet, or even that arsehole himself...has any kind of clue as to the answer to that question?

You've got to change the attitude of the rest of the sisterhood before bothering with the guys. Trying to keep ahead of the girls is like solving high order polynomials, trying to train the guys is like trying to train a monkey not to throw its own poo

 

This is the part of your story that destroyed your legal case. Being apparently more worried at that moment about getting in trouble with your parents than about getting raped... most people are not going to be able to understand your thought process. Can't relate. The guy gets the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, none of that justifies slut-shaming. That's a completely different issue. Being a slut is a lifestyle choice to which you are entitled, as an adult.

 

I have never had any kind of STD, and I have been sexually active for 18 years. Why? I discriminate and use the barrier method. Duh. Have you actually spent much time at the CDC website, or are you just another bleating sheep? Because if you're not a lemming who just follows whatever shiny piece of information a stranger on the internet puts in front of you, you would want context for that information. The fact is, that same website also details how most people do not properly use condoms. They define proper use as using it according to directions, exclusively with water-based lubes if needed, and using it every time. I'm not most people. I once did an informal survey on condom use and found that a shocking percentage of respondents did not know one had to withdraw the penis immediately after ejaculation before the erection is lost. Yeah. Those people, people who don't always use condoms and don't follow directions are skewing the statistics.

You don't have to tolerate anything you don't want to. And I don't have to pay any heed to neither your stupidity nor your ignorance.

 

I was a minor. He was twice my age, and had convinced me he was in my age group, and then had sex with me even though I asked him not to, and hurt me when I tried to push him away. So no. It was just victim blaming.

 

This really does not sound like rape. Rape is when someone forcibly engages in intercourse against your will. It doesn't sound like you put up much of a fight.

You first described him as a seedy married man with kids who took advantage of an unknowing teenager, when in reality you were 17 and invited him into your bedroom window and then snuck him out the morning after. You invited him into your bed. Did you cry rape because he chose not to leave his wife for you?

Not trying to make a mockery of rape at all because its a very serious offense. This to me though, does not constitute as rape at all.

 

Honestly, idk.

Personally - I abstain from sex when I'm single and prefer monogamous, long term committed relationships with people I can trust not to go behind my back. That approach has been safe for me.

 

I agree with most of this. To clarify and correct some of the assumptions, I was 16, had no idea he was married, thought he was 19 (a real babyface) and even if I had consented (which I didn't) he was breaking the law. So you see, the problem really is institutional.

I don't generally discuss my mother's response with anyone, let alone random dudes. In fact, outside of an anonymous forum, if and only if there is context, I haven't spoken much about that event at all. Most of my closest friends have no idea. It hasn't seemed relevant, and we haven't discussed it.

I resent that you call highlighting a relevant incident that contradicts a bullshit assumption playing the victim card. I trusted someone, he violated my trust. When the adults I asked to help me understand what had happened told my mother, I was made to avail myself of the legal system meant to protect me, and it constituents treated me as if I was the criminal, and not the adult who had deceived me and my family, and then raped me. Oh yeah. And when he left my house, he stole jewelry. He admitted to stealing it, and wasn't penalized for that either.

And why did he steal gold and diamond jewelry from my bedroom while I slept? Because he and his wife and her four children were broke. They were on welfare. We were quite a bit more comfortable than that by all appearances. His wife told me he frequently courted young women who had SSI benefits or something he could con them out of. She described (having never been to my house) all of my most valuable small electronics, my bicycles, and the word processor he thought was a computer. She said he intended to steal all of it little by little. He'd seemed so nice. LOL

Having never been attracted to the "badboy" image, and having almost exclusively dated very nice, quiet guys, I haven't been mistreated by any other boyfriend or lover, with the exception of one who used to sleep around behind my back. He gave me the courtesy of discretion, but not the consideration of simply asking me if it was okay.

That women are the worst slut-shamers is no secret as far as I am concerned.

 

All the more reason children shouldn't be sexually promiscuous. They get "taken advantage of".

Women being slut-shamers is really silly. More like you can pull bullshit on men more easily than you can on other women. For example, I can cry my way out of a problem and go "poor meeee" to a man and get away with it much faster than it will work with a woman.

Your story trivializes REAL rape victims. Go home America you're drunk.

 

I wasn't promiscuous. I had been sexually active with another boy close to my age. That one, I trusted. This one, I wasn't totally sure about, so I told him I was okay with touching, but nothing further. Each was the only one I was dating at the time.

Wow. After you've edited your post, I have to say, you're just a miserable bitch. You're so hapilyinlove that you spend all your time on a message board, racking up a thousand posts a month, mostly harassing other women. I actually pity you. I'm putting you back on ignore. The forum is more fun when you're dead.

 

Letting a random man into your bedroom to hang out in your bed is an indiscriminate act and the very definition of promiscuity. Other girls might get to know the person before letting a guy into their room. Its ok to admit your lack of discretion, that's what ultimately led to the event you perceived as loss of control and being taken advantage of.

Some men would continue sex even if a woman says no especially if it isn't an assertive "no". Simply saying "no" (without actually putting up a legitimate dispute or fight) is some women's way of remaining a chaste facade while allowing their partner (and themselves) sexual gratification. And I wouldn't condemn the men as rapists unless they continued after hearing an assertive "no".

It's like when a women cutely says "oh no stop" with a flick of the wrist. And then invitingly keeps the man on top of her with her legs spread. Like "no you can't fuck me" [but I'll let you dangle your dick on me while you kiss me softly]. Get real, thats not rape.


I guess you went back and edited your post. When did you have time to calculate the amount of time I spend here? Did you compare that amount of time to the amount of free time I have? Do you know how much free time I have? Do you know where and what my fiancé is doing while I'm on HF? Do you realize you're insulting quite a few people by looking down on them for the number of posts they submit? Do you realize how petty that is? This is a pretty long post for me. Not everyone types novels like you. A lot of mine are one liners By the way when you checked to see how much I'm here. Did you notice that I wasn't on for more than a few minutes last night? And the night before I didn't even get on my computer.

 

Read, then type, Genius. Read, then type. As far as I knew, he was my boyfriend. He chatted me up and we exchanged phone numbers. We spoke on the phone a few times, and he asked me for a date. I told him he had to meet my family and get permission to date me. He presented himself as a 19 year-old boy with a messenger job though he was neither 19 nor a messenger. He said he'd been in the foster system most of his minor years, and so had no family for us to meet. My mother said I couldn't go anywhere with him right away, but that I could have him over when she was home. After a couple of months of him coming over, we had permission to go on dates. Meanwhile, we'd also spoken a lot on the phone, and exchanged letters though the mail at his request.

You are promoting sexism with your assumption that despite what I have said, I didn't put up a legitimate fight. When the man raping you hurts you for fighting, but makes it gentle when you relax, you don't fight anymore. When I said no, I did so assertively and he proceeded anyway. Before that, I'd made it clear that we were only going as far as touching, and always with our clothes on. And I meant it.

And you know why I'd sneaked him in? He was a pretty small guy (part of why he passed for a teen) and I was concerned about him being on the street in his neighborhood late at night. I told him so, gave him sweats, and prepared to stay up all night watching tv, which is most of what we did together before that.

I actually wasn't even anything resembling promiscuous until my mid-twenties. Before that, I was a serial monogamist, and I was celibate between boyfriends. But thanks for playing, Jackass! No more from me, no matter how else you try to badmouth me. You're just a bad person. And I'm banishing you from my sight. Have fun flailing impotently while I ignore you.

 

K. I'm going to agree with Cherea on this one when he said you're basically just here to nag.

Your story is a bunch of bullshit. And now I'll agree with Vanilla Gorilla, Go share your rape fantasy with someone else.

It's no wonder no one believed your story back then, and no one believes it now either.

 

It is what it is as far as the double standard goes

 

So it's okay to offend someone who has been raped, but it's not okay to offend someone who makes a lot of posts on a website? How hypocritical.

 

I wasnt talking about me, my opinion, that my opinion would matter, or that I really have one in this instance. I was trying to say whether its right or wrong, people will change once they here this. Some will give you advice you are a survivor, you should not be ashamed and all that blah blah blah. Yes, in some situations and to some people, but with most of everyone else it will just leave you with a bigger headache.

All those many dozens of reasons/secret little agendas as to why they must discredit you. I think the big unspoken one is that beforehand you where sneaking in a guy twice your age. A lot of women are going to hear that and they are not really going to give a crap that you ended up getting raped, empathetic act to your face of course, but you must be discredited as they are really more concerned up their hubby getting any ideas about teenage girls than about what happend to you

Again, I'm not judging or blaming, but a lot will. Kind of a waste of time getting angry about some of that shaming if that shaming is really just a cover story for some other agenda

 

What is the legal age of consent in your state? It's 16 in most places.

 

17 if the older party is within 4 years of age of the minor.