The Double Standard for men and women.

How do you think it would go if the roles were reversed?

Guys who go out really wanting to have sex, often have to settle for less than their ideal. What if men were all saying no, and if a woman was set on having a little fun that night, she had slim pickings, often below her rating. Would the guy she ends up with be more or less likely to be a keeper?

It's not empowering to be comfortable with equality. It's empowering to use the ability to be selective and the status that comes with being a woman! And if you have the desire to be a 'fun girl' you can keep it to yourself and have it both ways! For the life of me, I cannot figure out why women would want to lose the way they have it.

There are sluts that are empowered, and prudes that are empowered, and everything in between. No matter who you are, its about owning it. There are guys that are virgins, or very selective, and if they own it, thats empowering.

Everyone just has to learn to be comfortable with who they are, in their own way. Asking society to have an entire paradigm shift about gender roles in sexuality is much more difficult than just learning to accept yourself.

 

Some people just can't see the possibilities and reasons why you fuck more than one person in your life?

No two women are quite the same, lots of fun!!

 

I was going to cite an example, but that opens a whole another can of worms.

 

How do sluts have it both ways? Empowered how?

 

Being with different people opens your eyes and you know what is possible.

Most people don't have a clue.

 

Correction: when I was raped, it was blamed on me by my rapist, his wife, my mother, the police detectives, the first three assistant district attorneys who handled and passed off my file, and a lady behind plexiglass in family court. So...lots of people. My mother did all the things you are supposed to do when your teenage daughter is raped, but because she was upset by the fact that my rapist wasn't my forst partner, she said some things it took a long time to get over There was some definite slut-shaming, but it was internalised misogyny. That's another story for another time.

Anyway. Slut-shaming isn't always direct. It isn't always about calling ine specific promiscuous woman a slut. It is slut-shaming when one speaks in a derrogatory manner about the promiscuity of any promiscuous person. Slut-shaming also doesn't require that the "slut" feel shamed.

I remember I was hanging out outside a bar where a band was playing too loudly inside. I couldn't get service unless I had a table, so I asked a couple to let me sit with them. I was dressed for "upscale casual" and on that evening I knew I looked attractive, but still conservative. I had a nice, long chat with the friendly couple, and as I was new to the area, asked them to recommend more venues with strong drinks and great music. They talked about the places in that district, and eventually brought up a bar a block away that is an "off-site" venue for swingers to meet each other. My boyfriend was the manager, though I hadn't told them that.

Man! They lit into "those people" like fire lights into starter fluid! There was an immediate assumption of a lack of discrimination, a lack of discretion, of dirtiness and disease. I played devil's advocate in a casual debate with them on promiscuity, swinging, safer sex practices, and birth control. I can't say I totally changed their hearts and mjnds, but they reluctantly agreed to be more open-minded about what other consenting adults choose to do. When I confessed to being not only in an open marriage, but dating the manager of that bar, and regularly swinging with him, they were agog. They remarked that I was polished, and looked conservative, and had approached them in such an unassuming manner, and that I must be kidding about being one of "those people". So I told them a little about our favorite place to swing, and then told them I'd never had VD, told them about my charity work, and since I was a student at the time, also told them about my perfect 4.0 GPA, logging into my student portal from my smarthphone and proving it to them. They did a lot of slut-shaming, but even though they were talking about me without knowing, I wasn't ashamed at all.

The fact is, I sleep around, but not with just anybody. In fact, since I moved again, there's been no one new, just the occasional fling with an ex or an old friend when I visit my hometown. The fact is, I've never been pregnant, and I've been fucking for more than half my life! The fact is, I've never caught an STD. Not once! So I don't buy the argument some make that it's a biological imperative. In fact, anyone who thinks slut-shaming and the double-standard is a biological response, and not just a social one, is in need of remedial anthropology, and should probably not make sweeping statments dolled up like scientific facts without occasionally picking up a book and reading it. The need to control female sexuality comes from pastoral societies. In some of the earlier societies that were matrilineal (even if they were not matriarchies) there was no tabboo for female promiscuity. But that too, is a lengthy discussion for another time.

Lastly, while it is true that it is easier for women to find sexual partners, even partners more attractive, intelligent, wealthy, and of higher social standing, it is not easy for her to get them all to come back, especially knowing they are not the only ones. The sluts I know do that, and so, always, have I.

Oh. And in case anyone was wondering, my rapist was given a DAT, so he never even went into holding, let alone county jail. He wasn't ultimately indicted, forget about tried, so he didn't go to prison. The system never so much as slapped him on the wrist. Yeah. But no one ever blames the victim.

 

^^Snaps!

 

100 is a lot of sex partners. I would probably have at least some kind of judgment for anyone who had slept with that many people, man or woman.

 

This is probably the only time I've disagreed with you. Wow.

We still live in a patriarchal society.

I believe its due in part to biology. Women are the primordial "nurturers", and I think its natural for men to avoid the uncertainty of paternity imposed by sexually promiscuous women. So I would blame it on instincts.

 

To each their own.

I actually don't even ask when I'm in a relationship. It makes no difference to me.

 

You do not share the details of your case, Mocha. So I can't comment. As far as the controlling female sexuality since the pastoral times, I do not argue about that anymore. My days of arguing against feminists or leftists of any kind are over. All I can tell you is that I have read and thought, and talked a great deal about it.

You do however confirm my feelings about people who complain about slut-shaming. Correct me if I'm wrong but in your story you actively brought up the topic. I'm a boy, and I wouldn't do that in a million years. My experience is that people who play the slut-shaming card more often than not do their dirty laundry in public.

 

Statistically speaking, "sluts" are prone to STD's. Any swinger who says they haven't had a single STD in their life has it the jackpot more times than anyone else in the same position.

Social implications aside, you're putting your health at risk.

Source: http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats/STI-Estimates-Fact-Sheet-Feb-2013.pdf

 

Not asking you to argue it, but can you give us an outline of your basic premise?

 

I actively brought up the topic? When? How? By asking where else there was live music and generous bartenders? That bar never has live entertainment unless you count the go-go dancers (who don't even work for the bar, but for a party hosted there monthly). Other than proximity, there was no reason for them to mention that bar nor its patrons. I didn't tell them my affiliation until the very end of the conversation. If they were people I was likely to run into again, I might never have told them.

Yeah, no details on my case. That would eliminate my anonymity. Ask other women though. Statistically speaking, you know someone who has been raped. If you know her well enough, ask her how the police talked to her.

 

I know a few women who have never reported their rapes. Mostly because they're shamed for it.

 

I was engaged to someone who was raped. She did not report to me on being blamed whatsoever by either the police, her family or friends. And certainly not by me, I went to great lengths to be as supportive as I could.

The perp was indeed sentenced, and later she got a restraining order upon his release.

Still, I must say being blamed for rape and being shamed are of different orders of magnitude. When someone is raped, their rights are being violated. No one has a right not to be shamed. That's ridiculous.

It's up to you to choose your friends wisely. I certainly don't hang out with people who slut-shame. Why should you?

 

I'm glad she got some sense of justice. I knew my perp, as most do, and that made it all the worse. I wasn't struck at all during. In fact, he kissed me gently, told me I was pretty, and sweet, said he'd take care of me, and I just kept saying no. I lied and told him I was afraid. I tried to get out from under him, but he made it hurt, so I lie still and waited, and he went back to being gentle. He came on my abdomen because I begged him not to finish inside me. He rolled over and changed the channel on my tv. I hit him with a box of tissues and told him to clean me off. He complied. Then, unsure what had just happened, I put my nightshirt back on and lay down. He held me all night. At sunrise, I helped him sneak out before my folks were awake. I'd snuck him in that night, which is why I never screamed. He wasn't supposed to be there. I didn't know he was in his thirties and married with children. Anyway. I was a dumb, giddy kid sneaking her boyfriend in after curfew. I didn't force him to do anything. Seems to me, he did all the forcing. A lot of other people saw it differently.

Those people at the table were not my friends. We were strangers sharing a table in a crowded, noisy venue. I wouldn't even recognize them if I saw them again.

 

I can see how, in your case, it'd be hard for many people to consider it rape. Not to condone any blaming. Even if I didn't consider it rape, there would be nothing to blame. It's either rape or just sex. And there's nothing wrong with the latter.

I'm not saying it wasn't rape, I'll take your word for it because I'm not a judge. Were I the judge, however, unless there was some other evidence, it would be hard to distinguish what happened to you from a case of buyer's remorse.

In my ex's case there was actually an hours-long physical struggle which left physical marks on her body and she reported to the cops immediately.

Look, if this is the infamous slut-shaming people keep ranting about, I'm sorry but they need a life! Who cares what strangers say? Strangers say all sorts of stupid shit!

 

It's not that the slut-shaming itself is the worst thing in the world, it is that it is a symptom of sexism. I care what people say when they make minor derogatory comments about Latinos, for example, for basically the same reason. It is not okay to tolerate bigotry.

 

So why should we tolerate disease spreaders?