The cost of Brexit

Did the paper mention when Britain joined the EU, and compare and contrast that cost with the benefits of membership? Without considering those things I’m not sure the figure you mention is very instructive.

 

Dax and Gul Dukat are we getting a DS9 theme going here.

 

Dax

What ‘English’ newspaper?

Between 1973 and 2018 the UK’s net contribution to the EU was £216 billion in real terms.

And the cost of Brexit has already been estimated by analysts as £130 billion and rising so that the prediction is that by the end of 2020 it will have reach some £215 Billion

[edit] Meaning that the cost of leaving the EU in the last 3 years will likely end up costing about the same amount as we paid in over the last 47 years.

Not a great deal

 

Dax

As for paying for EU membership -

I believe it cost somewhere close to 9 billion a year

But let’s put that in context - we spend:

145 billion on health

45 billion on defence

29 billion on transport

And 13 billion on overseas aid

We also contributed less (per head of population) than some other EU countries such as Germany.

For the 9 billion we got all the advantages of free trade with the EU members and with the EU trade deals with none EU countries along with a say in the regulations and policies set by the EU (unlike say Norway).

Some have put a figure of roughly £31bn-£92bn per year as the best estimate we have in terms of the additional value created to the UK economy through trade as a result of EU membership.

 

I’d really like to know where the Brexit supporters are getting there misinformation these days, I mean after 4 years of often intense discussion all the factual evidence is out there and easily accessible.

I get the feeling leavers would have to actively try and ignore the real figures to carry on peddling the half-truths and out and out lies that are still been pumped out by leavers.

You would also think that people would have worked out by now that most British papers are owned by wealthy, right wingers who are in favour of Brexit for their own ends and have been peddling lies about the EU for years.

Signing out for this post only as Garak the meanest tailor on the promenade

 

You telling someone else to calm down?

Lolz

 

There you are admitting Britain's wealthy want out of the EU so they can get richer

 

VG

Hey old mate, I’m still waiting for your promised rationally based defence of Brexit -

Can you give a rational reason why you think Brexit will be good for the UK and its people?

Not wishful thinking

Not bluster

Not bullshit

A rational and reasonable argument

I mean we have been discussing this issue for over three years here and NO leaver has yet come up with one but…..

And please don’t claim like before that you have but refuse to say where or what it was I’m wise to that one

 

You have to wonder just how impaired Brexit people’s cognitive capacities are that they haven’t worked out that the reason NONE of them can come up with a rational reason why Brexit will be good for the UK and its people is because there ISN’T ANY.

 

Lol, that didn't take long. Think you need to calm down

Britain has already left the EU

And I've told you before, you want to blame someone, that blame rests solely on the shoulders of one Jeremy Corbyn. If he had stepped aside in 2017 you might have gotten your 2nd referendum

 

Oh my poor VG LOL

I’m not the one unable to answer the question

Let’s try again

Can you give a rational reason why you think Brexit will be good for the UK and its people?

Not wishful thinking

Not bluster

Not bullshit

A rational and reasonable argument

 

I’d have to remind everyone that while we have stopped been a member of the EU the UK IS still to most intents and purposes still part of the EU and will be until after the transition period are over

We are still trading as we were before,

We are still in the EU customs union and single market,

All the rules and regulations are the same

We can still travel as before in the EU

The right to live and work in the EU and vice versa is still in place.

The European Court of Justice will also continue to have the final say over any legal disputes

And we continue to contribute to the EU budget.

*
I now we are leaving but that still doesn’t mean it’s a good idea and I’m just pointing out that those that pushed for it still can’t produce a rational reason for doing it.

 

And VG still has nothing...come on my little VG LOL you must have something...anything...

Can you give a rational reason why you think Brexit will be good for the UK and its people?

 

The argument in Brexit that it is done doesn’t make sense to me, I mean if someone pushed another over a cliff would that be the end of it, is it done, or is it the beginning of the next phase?

As I’ve explained Brexit is a process that is going to go on for years.

To me and many others this was a bad road to take and explained my reasoning and have repeatedly asked leavers to give me any rational reasons for why Brexit was a good thing for the UK – they have always been unable to do so.

And as I’ve said this is a process that will be going on for years there are things that can be done to mitigate or intensify the adverse effects (it is not a matter of no harm only of increasing or decreasing the harm caused by Brexit)

[edit] I can only hope that once those that supported Brexit realise just how big a mistake it was (them not been able to give a rational reason for it been a huge pointer to that) will they then be able to see a better way forward.

 

So much for our trade deal with the EU being 'a piece of cake' !!!

Brexit trade talks ‘a different ball game’ to Canada agreement, PM warned

PA
Feb 19th 2020 6:38AM
Boris Johnson has been warned that the European Union (EU) views negotiations with the UK as a "different ball game" to the trade talks which secured an agreement with Canada.

The Prime Minister wants a Canada-style trade deal which would leave the UK free to diverge from EU rules.

But a key aide to Brussels' chief negotiator Michel Barnier said the EU would not budge from its insistence on a "level playing field" on state subsidies, environmental protections and workers' rights as the price of any deal.

Stefaan De Rynck said: "It's clear that for us it's a different ball game that we are playing with the UK to the one that we agreed with Canada in terms of the level playing field."



He was speaking after the Prime Minister's negotiator David Frost warned that "to think that we might accept EU supervision on so-called level playing field issues simply fails to see the point of what we are doing".

Mr De Rynck said the UK's closeness to the EU in terms of both distance and trading relationships meant the level playing field conditions were more important than in other trade deals struck by Brussels.

"Some in the UK now seem to want to become Canadians. But Dover is much closer to Calais than Ottawa is," he said in a speech at the London School of Economics.

"Proximity matters, distance matters in trade. What also matters is the interconnectedness between our economies.

"So, in terms of zero tariff, zero quota access, this brings a lot of benefits to the UK economy and with benefits come obligations."

The UK and EU "share values such as free enterprise, open economies, social justice," he said, adding: "Surely it cannot be rocket science to agree common standards.

"Indeed the idea at the heart of the Political Declaration which has been agreed is having common standards on the issue of the level playing field."

I would expect some of these negotiations to be rather difficult, perhaps more difficult that during withdrawal because the scope of issues is so much vaster

Stefaan De Rynck
The goal of "zero tariff, zero quota" trade is set out in the Political Declaration agreed by the Prime Minister and the EU in 2019.

But Mr De Rynck said there was concern in Brussels about the Government attempting to deviate from the shared declaration.

A written ministerial statement published alongside the Prime Minister's major Brexit speech earlier in February was a "source of some concern in terms of the level of ambition in the Political Declaration not perhaps being fully met", he said.

With a deal needing to be reached by the end of the year, Mr De Rynck warned the talks could get "rather difficult".

"We have a vast amount of work and we seem to have 10 months to do it, or less than 10 months if you calculate the time for ratification so that everybody can be ready on January 1, 2021 for the new regime," he said.

"I would expect some of these negotiations to be rather difficult, perhaps more difficult that during withdrawal because the scope of issues is so much vaster."

The scale of the challenge was underlined this week by French foreign minister Jean-Yves le Drian, who predicted the two sides in the negotiations would "rip each other apart".

Mr De Rynck also set out the EU's position on talks on financial services and security co-operation.

He warned that an equivalence regime for financial services – where one side accepts the other's regulations are suitably robust – would not mean business as usual for the City.

"Equivalence is certainly not continuity, it does not exist for every service in the financial sector," he said.

"Equivalence is not something that can make up for the loss of the benefits of the single market."

On security, he stressed that "the closest possible co-operation in this field requires, ultimately, the (European) Court of Justice" to be involved if there are concepts derived from European Union law – something that Brexiteers will find hard to accept.

 

So much for the scumbag 'nasty party's' claim that a trade deal with the EU would be 'easy' !!!

French minister: We will not be blackmailed by UK over post-Brexit trade


France has warned the UK that it will not be "blackmailed" into accepting a "bad" post-Brexit trade deal because of Boris Johnson's December 31 deadline.

Ministers from the 27 remaining European Union members will meet in Brussels on Tuesday to agree the negotiating mandate for the talks on the UK's future relationship with the bloc.

In a sign that the EU is prepared to take a tough line, French Europe minister Amelie de Montchalin insisted that her country's farmers, fishermen and businesses would not pay the price for a trade deal to be in place by the end of the year.

She told TV station France 2: "In this negotiation it must be understood by British businesses that we do not want a bad agreement – almost certainly, that we will sign up to no blackmail."

The Prime Minister has ruled out extending the transition period beyond December 31, meaning the UK will do business with the EU on World Trade Organisation (WTO) terms on January 1 2021 unless an agreement with Brussels is in place.

Refusing to allow the UK to dictate the timetable, Ms de Montchalin said: "It is not because that Boris Johnson wants a deal at all costs for December 31 that we will sign, under pressure, a bad deal."

In a further indication that access to UK fishing grounds will be one of the main flashpoints in the talks, the French minister said: "The fishermen have the right to be protected, they know very well that if we sign a bad deal they will lose enormously."

We have spoken to 100's of businesses to produce 22 practical recommendations for future relationship with.️@NicoleSykes_ talk about our new report #redtapechallenge The Red Tape Challenge: business priorities for the future UK-EU economic relationship | CBIpic.twitter.com/gfRkeRj5q5

— CBI (@CBItweets) February 24, 2020

Businesses have urged Mr Johnson to drive down post-Brexit red tape in a trade deal with the EU as the UK prepares to sign off on its own negotiating demands.

A Confederation of British Industry (CBI) report on Monday called on the Prime Minister to ensure a deal with Brussels minimises bureaucracy to ensure a strong economy.

Ministers are expected to commit to seeking to obtain a Canada-style agreement with zero tariffs in the negotiating mandate scheduled for publication on Thursday.

But this could set up a clash with the EU after its chief negotiator Michel Barnier ruled out the possibility the UK can have the same deal as the North American nation.

CBI director-general Dame Carolyn Fairbairn said: "With talks now in touching distance, the CBI has asked employers across the country what practical outcomes they need from the future EU relationship so they can concentrate on what they do best: investing, innovating, creating jobs and supporting a strong economy.

"The message is clear: keep trade easy and minimise red tape. For this reason, British firms back many of the Government's objectives set out in the negotiating mandate, such as on zero tariffs and data."

The Government is expected to publish its negotiating mandate for a desired free trade agreement with the US the following week.

Environment Secretary George Eustice drew criticism on Sunday after repeatedly refusing to rule out chlorinated chicken and hormone-treated beef being imported from the States in the deal.

The Brexit inner cabinet will meet on Tuesday to sign off on the UK's mandate before it is published online and laid in Parliament on Thursday.

The PM's Europe adviser David Frost and his team will then head to Brussels for the first round of negotiations on March 2.

Downing Street insiders have accused the EU of being "hamstrung by indecision and delay due to the competing interests of different member states" ahead of Tuesday's meeting.

 

Yeah they will

 

And your evidence for your assetion is ..... ???

 

This is what those bastards in Downing Street think of some of our 'vital' industries, industries that provide food for millions of citizens.

Senior Government adviser says UK farming and fishing ‘not critically important’

PA
Feb 29th 2020 6:48PM
One of the most senior Government advisers has said the UK does not need its farming or fishing industries, according to reports.

In comments seen by the Mail on Sunday, Dr Tim Leunig is understood to have said the food sector was "not critically important" to the country's economy – and that agriculture and fisheries "certainly isn't".

The economic adviser to the Chancellor, in his leaked emails, is reported to have said ministers could follow the example of Singapore which is "rich without having its own agricultural sector".

The published opinions are likely to propel industry fears that ministers could discard safeguards for farmers and fishermen in the forthcoming post-Brexit trade talks with the US and the European Union.

The Government has distanced itself from the comments made by the Treasury adviser.




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A spokesman said: "We have made clear the comments are not in line with Government policy."

Sources told the PA news agency that the remarks were made in personal emails and that Dr Leunig was not speaking in his Treasury role.

The agriculture and fishing sectors represent less than 1% of the UK's economy respectively.

But rural and coastal communities voted out in large numbers during the 2016 referendum after the Vote Leave campaign argued that farmers and fishermen would would be better off once free of EU rules.


The value of the fishing sector was reportedly dismissed by Treasury adviser Dr Tim Leunig (Joe Giddens/PA)
Food standards have proved to be a dominating issue as negotiators prepare for trade talks with their US counterparts in the coming weeks.

Last week, Environment Secretary George Eustice came in for criticism after he refused to rule out chlorinated chicken and hormone-treated beef being imported from the US as part of a trade agreement with Washington.

Allowing such treated and often cheaper foods into the UK could undermine British farmers who operate to higher standards.

Fishermen also fear promises made to them on increased catch quotas and controlling who fishes in British waters could be traded in exchange for market access during the talks with the EU, which are due to begin next week.

Brussels has made clear it wants little to change in terms of access for European boats and quota allocation once the transition period is over in December.

Dr Leunig's comments would not be the first time a Government figure has managed to upset UK industry.

Proud to have worked with exceptional civil servants on this when I was @Defra with @theresecoffey@michaelgove. Thanks to @mhclg for data as well. Defra UK on Twitter

— Tim Leunig (@timleunig) February 22, 2020

Boris Johnson is said to have made controversial comments on the topic of Brexit, having reportedly said "f*** business" when questioned about the sector's concerns over a no-deal exit from the EU in 2018.

Treasury adviser and academic Dr Leunig is said to be close to Dominic Cummings, the Prime Minister's chief adviser in Downing Street.

Mr Cummings has called for "weirdos and misfits" to join the civil service in a bid to break the mould of current Whitehall thinking.

Whitehall saw a huge rupture at the head of the Home Office on Saturday when Sir Philip Rutnam, the department's most senior civil servant, quit and launched a tirade against the Home Secretary.

Sir Philip accused Priti Patel of orchestrating a "vicious" campaign against him, of lying about her involvement in it and of creating a climate of fear in her department.

He told the BBC he plans to sue for constructive dismissal.